The Phoenix can help the game rise up
Columnist
By Davidde Corran, 26 Feb 2010 Davidde Corran is a Roar Expert
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- A-League, football, Wellington Phoenix
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Wellington Phoenix's Tim Brown celebrates after scoring against Melbourne Victory during their round 6 match, played at the Ethihad stadium in Melbourne, Sunday, Sept 13, 2009. Phoenix drew the match with Victory 1-1 after full time.(AAP Image/Joe Castro)
I’ve been amazed by the football noise that’s been coming out of New Zealand over recent weeks. While I suppose it all started with that fateful match against Bahrain in November, since almost 20,000 fans stumped up in Christchurch to see the Phoenix defeat Adelaide United 1-0 almost four weeks ago, I’ve started to believe.
Not that Wellington Phoenix is capable of winning the Grand Final (despite Paul Ifil’s best efforts, I still find them one of the league’s least enjoyable teams to watch), but that the game in New Zealand is at a crucial point.
In truth, despite the national team qualifying for the World Cup, the Under 17 side finding success in Nigeria and the Phoenix’s debut finals appearance, New Zealand football hasn’t achieved anything that will ensure its long-term success yet.
The point, though, is that the game is now in a position to do so.
This momentum needs to be seized upon and New Zealand Football must form a long-term plan to galvanise the game at grassroots, club and national team level. Whether this involves Asia or not is a debatable point (though I think it does).
The key is going to be Wellington Phoenix.
A national team alone can’t secure a game’s future in any country. Look at South Korea or even the Socceroos as an example.
The regular football, sustained presence, and potential for success the Phoenix offer, however, could give the game some crucial leverage.
Unfortunately dark clouds still hang above the Phoenix’s future, thanks to the unnecessary license demands of Asian Football Confederation President, Mohammod Bin Hammam.
While on the pitch there isn’t yet a lot for Wellington to offer Asia, off it there certainly is.
I sat among a pitiful 4,983 people at Seongnam’s Tancheon Stadium who had paid between 5 and 11 Australian dollars to see Sasa Ognenovski’s Seongnam defeat Kawasaki Frontale 2-0. Scan the other crowd figures from this week’s Asian Champions League openers and, outside of China, attendances were similar.
Meanwhile, the Phoenix have already sold 25,000 tickets to Sunday week’s game against Newcastle.
Bin Hammam’s comments to The World Game yesterday that he’d like, “all Asia to stand behind one bid,” have me worried that Football Federation Australia might be willing to trade off the Phoenix’s integrity for a shot at winning the hosting rights to the 2018 or 2022 World Cup.
Not only would it be morally wrong, it would be a mistake for the A-League.
In a season where the two new clubs have both struggled off the pitch, North Queensland financially and Gold Coast in the stands, Wellington Phoenix are the only really good story to come out of season 5.
Organised in a few haphazard months before the 2007/08 season, the Phoenix have slowly built themselves up off and on the pitch. The A-League is better off because the ‘Nix’s contribution and FFA must acknowledge this by sorting out their future now.
My message for Wellington Phoenix, meanwhile, is to learn from Melbourne Victory’s mistakes. Their story this season reminds me of Melbourne’s phenomenal rise in season 2 of the A-League.
12 months later, the Victory had let itself down on the pitch and even more alarmingly left many of its fans with a sense of betrayal off it. Melbourne’s crowds, while still good, haven’t been the same since then.
So Wellington, cherish your fans. They are the reason your club deserves its place within the A-League.
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MV Dave said | February 26th 2010 @ 5:34am | Report comment
Not only does the HAL need WP but within 5 years perhaps a 2nd NZ team. Just as importantly NZ need HAL if they are to continue their rise into a competitive footballing nation. WPs recent crowds have confirmed that NZ fans will watch a team which is competitive and importantly successful, at least by winning most home games (which is the only time 99% of fans get to see them live). They are on course to sell out a domestic football game with 35,000 fans to watch v Jets…unthinkable during the dark days of the Knights etc, and the Jets game is only a semi final not the GF.
Al said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
I agree, Christchurch would be a very good candidate.
whiskeymac said | February 26th 2010 @ 8:01am | Report comment
fantastic crowds and good to see. here’s hoping BIn Hamman lets them stay.
Ben said | February 26th 2010 @ 8:14am | Report comment
I am very impressed with where the Phoenix are headed in terms of community engagement, public support and corporate structure. We definitely need them in the league! The buzz in NZ is enormous for the Jets match – it will be a sell-out. What most impresses me is the quality of the Yellow Fever supporters group and their ability to spread the ‘fever’ in the community, plus their website is fantastic!
Killer_Tomatoes said | February 26th 2010 @ 8:25am | Report comment
Getting rid of Wellington would be suicide by the FFA, but they have form, and they clearly value even an attempt at securing a WC in 2018/22 much higher than the continuation of league football in Australia, so I would not put it passed the FFA to not renew the Phoenix’s license in 2012
AndyRoo said | February 26th 2010 @ 8:56am | Report comment
“all Asia to stand behind one bid,”
one bid = Qatar
Doesn’t matter how many Wellingtons you sacrifice that will not change. The existence of the Phoenix in the A league is probably a non issue in AFC circles (Singapore are allowed a French team in their competition) but the AFC just love having something to laud over Australia.
Make us grateful to Hammam’s benevolence and keep us in place. I am sure if we got rid of the Phoenix their would be some other issue (you need Promotion and relegation, more Asian players. No salary cap etc etc)
Hammer said | February 26th 2010 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Timing is the issue really and it’s a good thing that the Phoenix licence takes them beyond the W/cup annoucement – the FFA know they can’t afford to lose what is a growth club in their league when others are stagnating or regressing and Melbourne’s supporter base will soon be split and the alternatives aren’t going to replicate what Wgtn are doing …the world cup should be seen as the icing on the cake while the growth and sustainment of the domestic league is imperative …
It’s not a surprise that they’re starting to see grow on and off the field as the Phoenix have tapped into a strong football region in the lower half of the north island – which also spreads into the south island … somthing that an Auckland based team was never going to do …
I disagree with Davidde on a couple of points – the Phoenix aren’t half as bad to watch as some of the teams in the league – they get it down on the ground and try a play a passing game .. and they could surprise either Melbourne or Sydney if they get past the Jets
Davidde Corran said | February 26th 2010 @ 5:56pm | Report comment
Hammer, for me this season there were three bands of teams in terms of how “watchable” sides were. Sydney, Melbourne, Newcastle and Gold Coast were generally enjoyable. Perth, North Queensland, Brisbane, Adelaide and Wellington were occasionally enjoyable, occasionally reasonable and sometimes awful and then the Mariners (enough said there).
When I’ve seen the Nix this season they’ve got the ball down on the deck but often only to boot it forward after a few passes. Ifil is an exception to this rule. Bertos and then Caceras to a lesser extent.
Yes they could surprise Melbourne or Sydney but that doesn’t make them a good team to watch. Obviously that’s just my opinion though.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Davide, weren’t you the bloke that said a few weeks ago that “NZ should learn its place in World Football” on here? Wasn’t that you? Big turnaround.
Conversely, Wellington’s success in the A-League tells me that they are self-sufficient now, and can develop their own football system. Argentina does not back up Uruguay’s football development.
Totally disagree on the 2nd NZ A-League team. Australia may as well go back to Oceania and call it the “Oceanic” League if we’re going to get teams in from all over the region.
NZ is dying to knock us off as it is, no need to give them any more ammunition.
Davidde Corran said | February 26th 2010 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Hi AA. Yes that was me except I didn’t say New Zealand should learn it’s place the article’s headline did. The piece was quite different and was referring to one person in particular. I have always been a big supporter of football in New Zealand.
Would have to agree with most of your other posts on here today however. A part of our agreement to move into Asia was on the proviso that we would support Oceania. Helping New Zealand is doing just that and I am all for it.
Republican said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:21am | Report comment
AA
My sentiments exactly, across all sport and more, yet we continue to foster their mercenary relationship in this respect.
They are NO different to any other foreign country exceptinng their collective green eyed monster affliction and we should stop indulging them such privelege, as if they are a state, they most certainly are not and never should be allowed to entertain this idea again.
Cheers
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
You’re an old timer, you’ve been around for a while, good to see.
The Kingz did nothing in the NSL and when the reforms were made, that was the time to cut NZ loose.
The original FFA administration has left us with a problem we didn’t have to deal with in 2010.
Shame on them.
Hammer said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:09am | Report comment
Well then AA lets bin the Phoenix and re-locate the licence to that mecca of Aussie sport Canberra – and watch the team wither and die ….
sometimes people can’t see the wood for the trees – the Phoenix are one of 2 or 3 success stories of the HAL – yet you want them out to appease a megalomanic on a half chance Australia may be in with a shout of holding the 2022 world cup … like it or not they good for the HAL and are becoming a boon for the FFA
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
I didn’t say Canberra
Dogz R Barkn said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Canberra, Wollongong, Tassie, Darwin, whatever – it’s the same deal – to move a team away from Wellington and put a team in any one of these sorts of places would be a retrograde step for the A-League.
katzilla said | February 26th 2010 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Its funny you mention Green Eyed monster affliction Republican, same story different day.
NZ is not a hanger on like you try to preach every day, NZ is a Market like it or not.
Australian sports do not expand into NZ out of the goodness of Occer hearts to see Kiwis excel at sport, they expand to line Australian sporting coffers and do so pretty well thank you.
Open your other eye for a change mate, its not one way traffic like you’d have us believe.
Realfootball said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:22am | Report comment
I reallly hope that the AFC – or FIFA – sees sense over the Phoenix issue. If FIFA allows the AFC to kill off the club, they are effectively destroying the code in NZ on any meaningful level.
Who would have thought that the Pheonix would become the good news story of this season?
Selling out the Cake Tin will be some compensation for all the times I have sat in an empty Skilled Park, Gold Coast, this season. It has been a long and depressing season for GCU members.
Ex member in this case, and ex until Bleiberg and Mensink are gone.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:45am | Report comment
Realfootball, NZ football is not the problem of the AFC. Australia is now part of the AFC, hence NZ football is not the concern of Australia or the AFC.
Do you understand this?
AndyRoo said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:51am | Report comment
So “for the good of the game” is just a sham, it’s all about the money?
Unfortunately your probably right AA
Thats probably why we could only get NZ as a farewell friendly because too many countries are just looking out for themselves. And that’s probably why we should take at least a little interest in our neighbour.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Andy, you’re right on the farewell game (i.e. we couldn;t get anyone else, I’ve got some juicy data on that one too which I’ll save for later!) but as for ‘keeping an interest in them’, does that mean we give them a team in the A-League? Australia owes NZ nothing. They didn’t set the world on fire when they had an NSL team, so I don’t see the need to prop them up now, and share in our football development.
Argentina does not prop up Uruguay, and England does not prop up Scotland. I don’t see Germany, Italy and France waiting to give Switzerland a hand either.
Like I said, no-one here has given enough credit or respect to those who fought for reform to the game in this country for years. Developing NZ football was NOT part of the reform.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:06am | Report comment
England does prop up Wales though. And Switzerland I think props up Liechtenstein. France props up Monaco. I think the Vatican was going to buy a Serie C club in Italy as well. The list goes on.
I think you’re fairly safe with Germany though.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:12am | Report comment
All in the same confederation though. Australia and NZ are different confederations. Key difference. Also, you used England and Wales, I said England and Scotland.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Mexican teams have competed against the best of South America in the Copa LIbertadores since 1998. A French team is kicking off in the S-League this year.
The politics of football is a messy, Machiavelian beast indeed.
Phutbol said | March 1st 2010 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
What is this French team in the S-League? surely that would be a precedent to allow WP to continue in the A-league?
Is the French team actually ‘French’ or is it French expats? ie is it a UEFA club playing in an AFC comp?
AndyRoo said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:26am | Report comment
AA
They pay their own way, and so I don’t see their existence costing us anything. If you look at the NBL and the NRL they each benefit $$$ wise from SKY and the fact sponsers get their product shown in Australia & NZ.
European and South American countries don’t care about other nations because they are all developed and at the top of the food chain.
It’s not like NZ is a black hole in that there is nothing in it for us. It’s more like Toronto in the MLS who have also been a great addition. We are not a developed world power so we need to use every advantage we have to punch above our weight. That sell out crowd in Wellington goes into FFA coffers, much more than the GCU final contributed and If not for Wellingtons crowd their would have been a lot more sad sack stories about Football in the press.
I see it as mutually beneficial in that our size is a disadvantage when compared to the big Asian nations and NZ effectively adds 4.5m to the market for our A league to draw on for fans, players and sponsers. As the standards in NZ rise then the more quality players they can add to cheaply fill our A league rosters.
Like Ben said they have been a good news story this year. The competition would be less interesting without them.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:00am | Report comment
I think what people are saying AA is that the Phoenix bring a vibrancy to the competition as well as a fan base that improves the reach of the A-League as a whole whilst being insufficient to sustain a fully professional domestic league. Without the Phoenix there is real reason to believe that the A-League will suffer as a result leaving us with a weaker competition. This should not be in the interest of the AFC as the A-League is a member competition.
If you believe that the A-League would be stronger without the Phoenix then fair enough. I just don’t believe we have at this stage the economy of scale in either fans, corporate dollars or talent to maintain the A-League on the current business plan without the Phoenix.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:08am | Report comment
The A-League is one thing, NZ football’s development and future paths are another.
As an “new zealand based, Australian” A-League club, on the surace they present well. But long term, is developing and promoting football in NZ beneficial to Australia?
The short answer has to be no.
I’d take some short term pain of no Phoenix versus the long term development of the game here. Australia owes New Zealand sweet fa.
Hammer said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Well – what about Oceania’s voting rights in FIFA ? … are they beneficial enough for you …
and are you really that worried about NZ football developing ahead of Australia – because if you are then your delusional … and anyway – the NZ players would still look at moving to aussie based clubs … FFS the golden boot winner for the last 2 seasons is a kiwi – do you think that just because the Phoenix weren’t there that Smeltz wouldn’t have been picked up last season … your argument smack more of kiwi bashing along with that clown republcian
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Hammer, you just said about Oceania’s 11 votes in FIFA. So either way, whether it’s the AFC or Oceania’s vote, it still goes to show that the assistance Australia gives to NZ is POLITICAL, and not SPORTS/FOOTBALL MOTIVATED.
You’ve strengthened my argument for me. I don’t know where you’re based, but NZ players lift 20 notches when they play Australia, so why give them that futher assistance. They WANT TO BEAT US, so why give them a hand?
Ben of Phnom Penh said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:21am | Report comment
I suppose we just have to disagree on this point. I think in the short to medium term there is synergy in the relationship and we have to look at our domestic football development in a global as opposed to Antipodean context. If working with the Kiwis allows us to reduce the gap between us and Europe at a faster rate and the cost is bringing the Kiwis with us then I suppose it is a price worth paying.
This is the real argument. Is the cost of associated regional development worth the return of improved football in a global context. The FFA has run the numbers and believes so, which is why there is also a far more detailed development agreement between Australia and Indonesia penned recently. In the long term I believe we have much more to fear from Indonesia than the Kiwis, yet I am still in favour of mutual progression.
Given the disparities between our football and the best of the rest I think that mutual progression does not lead to mutually assured destruction.
AndyRoo said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:33am | Report comment
The short answer has to be no
This is where I disagree. If NZ are providing the A league with good players and teams then thats an extra advantage we have in our battle against the CSL and K league in making our League a regional power.
Realfootball said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
AA, unlike you I identify the Pheonix with the wider health of the A League. Australia isn’t big enough. RU saw this and Super 14 has revolutionised the sport.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Not to mention how New Zealand saved Australian rugby from total collapse back in the 70′s,
I guess some just don’t have the ANZAC spirit, whilst two different countries Australia and New Zeland have the ability to work together on most things and this is mirrored in sport and politics. But I guess people like AA seem to think Australian football is bigger than it really is.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 3:04pm | Report comment
Ora, rugby and football are two different sports. Australia has hired largely Dutch officials to help improve its game. I don’t see NZ spending big on foreign investment to improve its football stocks.
I did a google search of ‘New Zealand helped Australian rugby in the 1970′s’ and I found this on the first search:
Some of the views of Winston Peters, the ex-New Zealand foreign minister, illustrate the manner that New Zealand’s history and culture is used in a way to exclude the descendants of “late comers”. Peters is a mix of Maori and Pakeha ancestry, and has appealed to anti-Asian sentiment in New Zealand. According to Peters:
“We say when there are projections from Statistics New Zealand showing Asians outnumbering Maori in around 20 years time because of immigration that something should be done about it.”
“We are being dragged into the status of an Asian colony and it is time that New Zealanders were placed first in their own country.”
“We have now reached the point where you can wander down Queen Street in Auckland and wonder if you are still in New Zealand or some other country.” (3)
In 2007, Winston Peters was running second in polls showing New Zealand’s preferred Prime Minister.
Yep, let’s help New zealand football along.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
What the hell does that have to do with anything AA,
You are a deluded puppy who is trying to get a foothold because you have been knocked off your very unstable perch.
Run along chum mummy is waiting for you to get home and wash up for dinner.
Oh and while were on the Asian thing, Australia doesn’t have the same problem with immigration does it?.
Yes your a silly boy aren’;tyou don’t do your homework at all.
katzilla said | February 26th 2010 @ 7:55pm | Report comment
Quoting a Crack pot NZ Politician does nothing for your argument AA, its like Quoting Pauline Hansen as the opinion of all Australians and Yes there was a point when she was as popular here as Winston Peters has ever been in NZ.
You’ve gone off on a huge tangent there and thats the signal of a weak argument.
OZ gains financially and imroves the strength of its domestic competition by having NZ team/s in the HAL. Open both eyes just once and you might see beyond your own backyard.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
How many countries play rugby competitively? 10, 15 perhaps?
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
And there is only 10 countries who have a realistic chance of winning the football world cup and sorry for you AA Australia certainly isn’t one of them!
You have an almighty chip on your shoulder and it is laughable, the Phoenix are doing well in the A-league and it really has got your back up.
Is it that they may possibly go one further next weekend?
Has your beloved club been bailed out already?
I guess you have also forgotten that Australians are also part of the Phoenix set up hmmm I guess so. One Durante has been named in the Socceroos playing out of WP and I wouldn’t be surprised if Reddy gets a call up soon. But that doesn’t fit your Kiwi bashing argument so we will leave that out just for you we don’t want you popping more than one blood vessel it is Friday afterall.
Justin said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
Probably not even 10 teams are a real chance of winning the FIFA WC.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Your right there Justin,
Didin’t want to irk AA too much can’t have him falling into a state of depression on a Friday afternoon now can we?
Reality is just a little too much for this lad to take lets let him enjoy his weekend with Alice in Wonderland
Tom said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Second NZ team is definitely worth considering. A New Zealand derby would only boost the support for the teams.
Australia and NZ football will always be inextricably linked.
Frankly though, we need to be pushing NZ to bite the bullet and press for entry to Asia.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
Oceania will fold if NZ move. NZ comes as a ‘package deal’.
I’m starting to believe the SBS crew now about ‘New Dawn’ fans and all that, some people on here have no credit or respect for those that wanted reform to the game in this country.
tony yeboah said | February 26th 2010 @ 11:30am | Report comment
AA
Part of the wheeling and dealing involved when Australia became a member of the AFC was that we would continue to help develop football in the Oceania region. Whether this was a stipulation of the Oceania confederation so as they would give us our blessing, or one the FFA did willingly i do not know. But the Phoenix is part of this deal, helping with the development of football in the Oceania region.
We may no longer be a member of Oceania, but we still have our responsibilities to the region.
Tom said | February 26th 2010 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Is that ‘no respect’ point directed at me, AA? You might have to explain why, if it is.
In any case, Oceania should have folded when Australia moved. Sooner, even. There’s no point New Zealand going down with that sinking ship.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Um, no it’s not.
Oceania were happy to release Australia so that its other members could make all those Youth tournaments we used to make.
Oceania’s concerns are now Oceania’s problem. Australia moved to rid itself of that basketcase of a Confederation.
And on the ‘deal to help Oceania’ for Australia, well an Oceania team scammed its way to the World Cup. That is enough assistance! They can work out the rest from here.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
I guess the rest of the world views Australia as a basket case too AA hence why noone wants to come and play Australia downunder.
Your loathing for Kiwis is paramount in everything you say. You truly are enraged by all of this I hope your not going to pop a blood vessel old chap
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
Big dal what you say “Ora” someone has to say it, so I’ll take it upon myself to do it.
Being nice and diplomatic ain’t going to work here. Geez I’ve got some big news on the Aus vs NZ game, but dealing with the likes of you Ora means I won’t divulge it.
DaMan3000 said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Scammed their way in? I will be ignoring the rest of your comments.
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
I never asked for your opinion from the start. “Da Man”… whatever you reckon.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
It is an opinion site AA he doesn’t need your permission to post!
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
Come on champ you a bit scared now aren’t you, big words and stuff all to back it up.
Even your own countrymen think your an absolute muppet
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Half of them weren’t around when the original reprogramming of the game took place. The FFA made a big stuff up here and they’ll be hell to pay sooner or later about it.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Hell to pay…… do explain AA.
Seems the consensus is that the A-League is more colourful with the WP involved, not to mention the money that FFA gets from them. The WP go a big chunk of money will go with them. What next you don’t want New Zealand players playing at all?
Hammer said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
well that really speaks volumes on what a petty, insular individual you really are – do you have Pauline Hanson poster on your bedroom wall I wonder
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Hahahaha that is too funny Hammer,
Isn’t she the anti immigration Muppet who has emmigrated to Britain with a stop over in New Zealand on the way!!
AA said | February 26th 2010 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
Well someone has to protect the hard earned and fought for rights that the game now enjoys here. The FFA isn’t doing a good job of it at present.
Ora said | February 26th 2010 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
All it seems your doing is turning people against you and surely that isn’t what you want.
i’m sure Daddy (Republican) will be allong in no time to mop up those tears and give you a big hug.
Seriously AA get to grips with reality most people don’t have a problem with it except a very small minority. Most Australian soccer fans can see the benefits having the Phoenix involved brings. FFA can certainly see the ka-ching$$$$ factor
Mahony said | February 26th 2010 @ 6:24pm | Report comment
I watched the tripe dished out by NSL administrators for years. I welcome the A-League, New Dawners and the Wellkngton Phoenix because I love football more than my own petty, provincial instincts……