Can the Magpies overcome the Colliwobbles?

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By Michael Filosi, 3 Sep 2010 Michael Filosi is a Roar Expert

Tagged:: AFL, Collingwood Magpies, Mick Malthouse

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The Magpies are deserving winners of the minor premiership, having been the most consistent side all season. It will count for little though if Mick Malthouse’s men don’t achieve the ultimate prize – an AFL premiership.

In the past fifteen seasons, the team which finished top of the ladder after the minor round has gone on to win the premiership just five times (Carlton 1995, Essendon 2000, Port Adelaide 2004, West Coast 2006 and Geelong 2007). Of most concern to Collingwood followers will be their side’s poor goal-kicking.

Key forward Travis Cloke has declared he doesn’t want the ball in his hands should a key game be in the balance and Dayne Beams missed a shot in the dying minutes of the Magpies’ final round match against Hawthorn which would have won Collingwood the match.

How the Collingwood players manage their goal-kicking yips this September will have a significant bearing on whether the Pies win their first flag in twenty years.

Will Geelong stake its claim as one of the greatest teams of all-time?
Were it not for Hawthorn’s upset win in the 2008 grand final, Geelong would be aiming for four successive premierships heading into this year’s finals.

If the Cats can take out the big one this year, they will equal Brisbane’s feat at the start of the decade of three premierships in four years. Greatness beckons for the Cats.

Will the scars of last year help or hinder the Saints?
The Saints were narrowly defeated in last year’s epic grand final in a match neither side deserved to lose. It remains to be seen whether the hurt of that loss will inspire the Saints onto bigger things this year.

Faced with another tight finals match, will the Saints rise to the occasion, or will the ghost of their grand final loss last year come back to haunt them?

Can Hawthorn hold their best form long enough to progress deep into finals?
As Rohan Connolly noted in last Saturday’s Age newspaper, there have been two Hawthorn sides this year – Good Hawks and Bad Hawks. If the immensely talented Hawthorn line-up can string together several matches of their best form, the Hawks are capable of going deep into September.

Bring out the tripe they displayed at the start of this season, and it could be curtains at the end of this weekend for the 2008 premiers.

Can the Blues regain their giant-killing form?
If the Blues can win their first final against the Swans in Sydney on Sunday, they will return to Melbourne fancying their chances of causing an upset or two against the top four Victorian sides.

In a purple patch mid-season the Blues defeated Geelong and St Kilda comfortably, and their fellow Victorian sides will be mindful of the Blues hitting form given their giant-killing heroics earlier this year.

Have the Bulldogs run out of puff?
Pre-season fancy the Western Bulldogs stumble into the finals minus Brownlow medallist Adam Cooney and key defender Dale Morris. Compounding their injury woes, the Bulldogs’ form heading into the finals has been poor. Two big losses late in the season to Sydney and Geelong and an indifferent display against a struggling Bombers outfit doesn’t auger well for the Bulldogs’ final chances.

At their best the free-flowing and attacking play of the Doggies can trouble the very best sides but right now that form looks a long way off.

On current form, the Bulldogs risk being the first side since the Eagles in 2007 to finish the minor round in the top four only to lose two straight finals.

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The Crowd Says (30) | Page 1 of Comments

Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 8:11am | Report comment

The “minor premiership” is an NRL concept – we don’t recognise any such thing in Australian Football.

Reply
- beaver fever said | September 3rd 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
  
  I was not aware of that, i do know that many comps still practice the club champion award, a combination of points on a sliding scale for 1st’s, ressies and colts, depending on each teams wins for the year.
  
  IMO more kudos/awards/money should be given for the minor premiership in the AFL.
  
  Reply
  - Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 10:28am | Report comment
    
    bf
    I lived the first 23 years of my life in Melbourne, and never, ever heard the term once.
    
    In 1987 I moved to Queanbeyan for a couple of years, and that was the first time I ever came across the term – in relation to League.
    
    Since then, the term has probably permeated AFL circles to a limited degree, but certainly it’s not used as widely as it is in League circles. Also, we only really celebrate the Premiership.
    
    The term is now so widely known that many incorrectly apply it to the A-League, but that is incorrect – that is known as the Premiership, not the Minor premiership (it’s a trophy in its own right).
    
    I did a quick google of AFL minor premiers, and most of the hits were for generic entries, like Wikipedia, there were no hits on major dailies using the term.
    
    But there was one curious hit – from the AFL site itself! Referring to finals history, and the early 20th century in particular, there is one reference to the “minor premier” (shown in quotation marks on the site itself).
    
    I think you are referring to the old McLelland Trophy, that used to be given to the team that performed the best across the Seniors, Reserves and U19s.
    
    It now is given to the “minor premiers” – according to Wikipedia – but once again, I’m not sure how common a term it is in AFL circles.
    
    Reply
  - Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 10:36am | Report comment
    
    Sorry, I just googled AFL minor premiership, and I did get some hits from daily papers, including Melbourne papers, about the Pies getting the “minor premiership”.
    
    There you go – maybe it is accepted? I’d be interested in hearing from others.
    
    Is “minor premiership” now part of AFL vocabulary?
    
    If it is, is it just a recent thing?
    
    Reply
    - BigAl said | September 3rd 2010 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
      
      I’ve certainly heard it referred to for many years – but quite often its seems to be used in a derogatory fashion (if the premiership is not won)
      
      – like winning the ‘Rubber’ medal in the Olympics – for finishing fourth.
      
      IMO the minor premiership and the rubber medal are extremely under-valued.
      
      Reply
      - beaver fever said | September 3rd 2010 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
        
        I have heard it for many years as well, and i thought it was common in Australian football, although i did not grow up in Victoria, so maybe it is more of a rugby league term, but at any rate it should have more importance bestowed upon it than currently is.
        
        Reply
        
        Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 9:04pm | Report comment
        
        bf
        I’ve written a long post below referring to the use of the term in the very earliest years of the VFL, but the evidence suggests that the term disappeared by the 1930s.
        
        Interestingly, someone on big footy wrote that he thought the expression came from SA.
        
        Perhaps the term had wider ciculation in WA and SA than Victoria?
  - Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 10:41am | Report comment
    
    The following wikipedia article appears to suggest that it was the NRL that first started using the term in an official capacity in Australia:
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_premiership
    
    Reply
beaver fever said | September 3rd 2010 @ 9:46am | Report comment

IMO the Pies will run every team off their legs this year, and win the flag quite comfortably, Colliwobbles or not.

I stated on another thread that this Collingwood team is the best team they have had with in many peoples living memory, now they need to prove it.

Reply
Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 11:33am | Report comment

Collingwood’s first minor premiership since 1977.
The have won the McClelland trophy.
They have now reclaimed top spot for most minor premierships.:

18 Collingwood
17 Essendon
17 Carlton

If you go to the AFL website – the term “minor premiership” is common currency.

Reply
- Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
  
  Art
  it’s common currency, today, maybe – but did you use the term yourself growing up?
  
  Reply
- Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
  
  This website goes over the history of the McClelland trophy:
  http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/the_mcclelland_trophy.htm
  
  and uses the sort of language I’m more accustomed of hearing from fellow AFL fans:
  
  “Inaugurated in 1951, the McClelland Trophy was named in honour of former Melbourne player (75 Games) and administrator William Caldwell McClelland. Initially, the trophy was awarded to the VFL club with the best overall record all three grades according to the following points system: senior win 10 points; reserves win 4 points; thirds/under 19s win 2 points. In 1991, however, the league decreed that the award should go instead to the club which topped the ladder at the end of the home and away rounds. ”
  
  i.e. “the club which topped the ladder at the end of the home and away rounds”
  
  In other words, if you go back to the official records in 1991 – the term: “minor premier” was not used by anyone in AFL circles, least of all, the AFL.
  
  Reply
  - Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
    
    To sum up, for you to say “we don’t recognise any such thing in Australian Football” is then incorrect.
    
    Its been in use for 20 years.
    Michael’s use of the term is correct.
    What it was refered to back in the day is irrelevant.
    
    Flooding and frontal pressure were meteorological concepts back in the day. Now they are also AFL concepts.
    
    Reply
    - Michael Filosi said | September 3rd 2010 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
      
      I must admit, I didn’t think the term “minor premiership” would be such a talking point.
      
      On a related topic, do Roarers feel “regular season” is an AFL term, or indeed a term used within Australian sport, or have we adopted it from the American sporting scene? The NBA particularly has the “regular season” and then the “finals,” and I am curious if anyone has heard the term “regular season” used in relation to any of the Australian footy codes?
      
      Reply
      - Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
        
        Michael -sports language is an ever evolving creature.
        
        We have embraced Americanisms, terms such as a club being 10 and 4 after 14 games to describe a team’s record. But “regular season” has not really caught on. “home and away” season is still the term used by the majority of AFL fans.
        
        Reply
        
        beaver fever said | September 3rd 2010 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
        
        I prefer H&A rather than regular, H&A gives the feeling of us V them IMO.
    - Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
      
      If you read what I quoted – the conclusion is that it HAS NOT been in use for 20 years – that’s the point!!!
      
      It is a very, very recent phenomenon – and it is still not a term used widely in AFL circles. If you were an AFL fan, you would understand that only too well.
      
      And by the way, you were wrong about SBS broadcasting all the games in 1986.
      
      Reply
      - Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
        
        I said “almost all the games” – quoting inaccurately is a no-no
        
        “we don’t recognise any such thing in Australian Football”
        quoting accurately
        
        Reply
        
        Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
        
        Yeh, but it wasn’t almost the games – it wasn’t even half the games.
Redb said | September 3rd 2010 @ 1:42pm | Report comment

Geelong did not win in 2008.

Reply
Michael Filosi said | September 3rd 2010 @ 2:01pm | Report comment

On the issue of “minor premiership,” when Port Adelaide finished minor premiers in 2002 and 2003 only to not make the grand final it gave rise to the joke….

Q: What’s the difference between an arsonist and Port Adelaide?
A: An arsonist wouldn’t waste 22 matches.

You can be sure that if Collingwood don’t win the flag this year, this chestnut will get a re-run. Stay tuned.

Reply
- Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 2:53pm | Report comment
  
  Speaking of jokes
  Q. What do you call a female Collingwood fan in a tracksuit?
  A. The bride
  Q. What do you say to a Collingwood supporter with a job?
  A. Big Mac please.
  
  Reply
Pablo said | September 3rd 2010 @ 2:13pm | Report comment

On another matter in relation to this article, it states ‘…the team which finished top of the ladder after the minor round has gone on to win the premiership just five times … Geelong 2008…’

It goes on to say ‘…Hawthorn’s upset win in the 2008 grand final…’

It can’t be both, can it? Facts should be check before publication.

Reply
- Michael Filosi said | September 3rd 2010 @ 5:29pm | Report comment
  
  To Pablo and Redb,
  Good spotting with the “Geelong 2008.” It was a typo rather than an oversight, my apologies. Article has been updated now.
  
  Reply
Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 2:14pm | Report comment

If people think that the terms “minor premier” and “minor premiership” are part of the common AFL parlance, let us look for references to such a term, say, pre-1995, e.g. an example of the footy record using it, or any other documentation or publication pre-1995.

My bet is that you won’t find any such examples.

Reply
- Luke W said | September 3rd 2010 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
  
  I think you have proven it is a relatively new term. But the fact is now it is pretty widespread, with both The Age/Hun and the AFL themselves using it. Still, a big who cares?
  
  Reply
  - Art Sapphire said | September 3rd 2010 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
    
    +1000
    
    Reply
  - Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
    
    Someone from NSW who doesn’t follow the game may not care, that’s fair enough.
    
    Someone else thoroughly immersed in the unique culture that is Australian Football, might ponder to him or herself: when did this term “minor premier” enter our vernacular?
    
    Afterall, language is an important element of culture, and vice versa.
    
    A curious aspect of Australian Football culture is that we have never, ever placed any importance at finishing top of the ladder at the end of the home and away season (beyond the advantage a team wins in the first week of the finals), which helps explain why we have never had a term for it.
    
    For instance, there is no hoopla about teams winning the McClelland trophy – it barely gets a mention in the media.
    
    A few posters on BF have suggested that the term “minor premier” has gradually permeated AFL circles because of the concentration of sporting news infrastructure within Sydney – and that’s probably right.
    
    Does language matter?
    
    You are saying it doesn’t, and yet look at the efforts the FFA and many soccer fans are going to overturn the use of the word soccer in this country – which is effectively an attempt to override the Australian vernacular and accepted usage within Australian English.
    
    So at least in some circles, language does appear to matter.
    
    Reply
Mister Football said | September 3rd 2010 @ 8:59pm | Report comment

MF
I owe you an apology. Someone on big footy alerted me to some of the funny finals systems used in the early years of the VFL, and sure enough, the terms “minor premiership” and “minor premier” appear in the very earliest years of the VFL. I replicate my post:

I’ve been checking 100 years of Australian Football. It discusses highlights year by year, starting 1896, and it provides direct quotes from newspaper articles of the day, so that’s effectively recorded evidence of how the term was used.

For example:

May 14, 1898
VFL tries another Premiership system
The eight teams will now play two matches against each other, for the Minor Premiership.
(Essendon are described as Minor Premiers, lost grand final to Fitzroy)

This system operated 1898 to 1900, but the term minor premier appears a few times after that.

The McIntyre final four system was introduced in 1931, and the term starts to drop out of circulation.

From that point on, finishing first is no different to finishing second, and the only thing that matters is winning the grand final.

For instance, with the introduction of the final five in 1972, we read: “on the second Saturday, the winner of the Qualifying Final meets the top team in the Second Semi Final.”

I can’t find any evidence of the use of the term: minor premiers or minor premiership in the modern age (this book goes up to 1995).

A few on big footy back me up that it’s something that has only come into our lingo very recently.

Certainly, when the McClelland trophy was changed in 1991 to be awared to the team that finished top at the end of the H&A season, that’s precisely the way it was described – at that point – no one involved witih the AFL used the expression: minor premiership.

Reply
- Michael Filosi said | September 7th 2010 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
  
  Thanks Mr Football, nice work on the research you’ve done.
  
  Reply