I found out I’m a Kiwi citizen – can I justifiably support the All Blacks?

Liam Clarkson Roar Rookie

By Liam Clarkson, Liam Clarkson is a Roar Rookie

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86 Have your say

    Like many other Australians, I thought this week would be a good time to clarify my citizenship status.

    Born in Brisbane to an Australian and a Kiwi, I hadn’t bothered to fact-check my potential New Zealand citizenship.

    It was a fair surprise then, when I took the test on the New Zealand government website and discovered I was a Kiwi citizen by descent.

    Despite owning no documentation whatsoever, the New Zealand government recognises me as a citizen, which can be certified in passport form for $318 if I so choose.

    As a sport-lover, this raises a tricky question, particularly after the Wallabies’ appalling Bledisloe Cup loss – can I, as a citizen of Australia and New Zealand, justifiably support the All Blacks?

    There are a few arguments for and against this to help me make a decision.

    For: I am a Kiwi citizen
    My mum is a Kiwi and I have citizenship. Surely, this entitles me to support any of New Zealand’s national teams, including their crown jewels, the mighty All Blacks.

    Against: It’s too late
    I am a couple of months short of entering my 20s, and I have been watching the Wallabies for a long time. The current period is undoubtedly the toughest of my life, but jumping ship now would be cowardly and wrong.

    The All Blacks’ success would definitely partially compensate for the guilt, but could I ever live with the abuse from my mates for ditching the Wallabies when they needed me most? Could they live with my smugness with every Bledisloe Cup smashing?

    For: I will enjoy rugby again
    A no-brainer. The All Blacks are the best team in world rugby and have been for a long time.

    They have elevated themselves to almost mythical status since collecting a long overdue World Cup in 2011, so much so that for them to lose more than one Test a year is a shock.

    Australian rugby is obviously in a far poorer state. The dismal performances of this year’s Super Rugby contingent, the dreadful handling of the Western Force’s folding, and the Wallabies’ horrendous showing in Sydney on Saturday sum it all up.

    You can’t blame a guy for just wanting to enjoy watching a sport… can you?

    Against: You can’t pick and choose national teams
    I already own shirts representing the Socceroos, the Kangaroos and Australia’s cricket team.

    Where national pride is concerned, it’s a little tricky to cheer hard for a country in some sports, and for another country in others.

    Divided loyalties are a tricky business, as many politicians have discovered in the last month.

    If I were to dedicate myself to the All Blacks, would I not be obligated to go all in and support the Kiwis, Black Caps and All Whites as well?

    This issue is all the more difficult considering the prominent Australia-New Zealand rivalry which permeates across most of our favourite codes.

    For: I truly identify with New Zealand
    I don’t want to create the impression I had nothing to do with New Zealand until I googled my potential Kiwi status.

    I have been to the Shaky Isles six times to visit family or for recreation, and certainly plan to go again.

    Without sounding too much like a tourism campaign, New Zealand is a beautiful country with a great sporting culture.

    I do feel a certain sense of pride when I’m there, and having a Kiwi parent contributes strongly to that.

    All the same, I certainly feel strongly about my Aussie pride as well, having lived here all my life. I couldn’t bring myself to hate Australia, despite its many faults.

    Michael Hooper Australia Rugby Union Championship Bledisloe Cup Wallabies 2017

    AAP Image/Dean Lewins

    Against: Good things come to those who wait
    Probably the weakest of any of these points is to ‘hang in there, baby’.

    The chasm between Australian and New Zealand rugby has never been wider. With Australian participation rates plummeting, a Super Rugby team recently cut, and a dreadful team playing for the Wallabies in the present, there is little reason to have hope for the future.

    One would be forgiven for thinking the Wallabies will never win the Bledisloe Cup again.

    All the same, there is a little voice in the back of my mind saying the Aussies will – eventually – win it back. Two close victories on home soil would do it.

    Sure, it won’t be this year. Or next year. Or 2019. But eventually. And when it happens, how sweet it will be.

    For New Zealand, the Cup has become a yearly formality. The Wallabies should be far more determined than their opponents to claim it.

    All that said, I remain unsure where to go from here.

    To you, dear reader, I await your helpful hints or vitriolic abuse.

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    The Crowd Says (86)

    • August 21st 2017 @ 3:14am
      Gewurtz said | August 21st 2017 @ 3:14am | ! Report

      Yes, come home and enjoy rugby! πŸ™‚

      • August 21st 2017 @ 10:38pm
        woodart said | August 21st 2017 @ 10:38pm | ! Report

        yes, come over to the dark side. first thing, we dont call home ” the shaky isles”. as for having to support other kiwi teams, why? unless you follow those sports. I couldnt care less about cricket ,so dont support the kiwi team. big plus about finding out you are one of us, you cant be an aussie politician…..

    • August 21st 2017 @ 4:06am
      taylorman said | August 21st 2017 @ 4:06am | ! Report

      Nice Liam, a fun way of looking at it.?

      • August 21st 2017 @ 8:36am
        The Fatman said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:36am | ! Report

        The team is okay it’s just the little things like missed tackles, ball retention, poor set plays and inability to score tries that lets them down…game after game after game after game…..

      • August 21st 2017 @ 5:24pm
        Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 5:24pm | ! Report

        You’ve just won a ticket to paradise, Liam.

        Your fear of snakes will vanish too.

      • August 21st 2017 @ 5:38pm
        Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 5:38pm | ! Report

        Don’t be afraid to leave the desert, Liam!

        Just imagine not having to put up with Cheika, and all the moaning. And when you start supporting the All Blacks you’ll be like “Ah I’m so upset we only won by 40 points”

    • Roar Guru

      August 21st 2017 @ 4:10am
      The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 4:10am | ! Report

      Hi Liam

      I will tell you my story, and then you can tell me if it helped you or not.

      I am born and raised in Sweden with a Swedish mother and a German father. But due to some weird laws in Sweden when I was born I got a German passport and not a Swedish one (the father nationality was the key back when I was born in 1972). And while growing up, we visited Germany at least twice every year, many times more than that. So I had strong German ties, no doubt. And as a little kid, I idolized my father a lot, and that gave an extra boost to the German side of me. Still, born and raised in Sweden and my first language has always been Swedish.

      Soccer was my first love in life and I started to play almost right after I learned how to walk. I had a favorite local team in Sweden, but the Swedish national team never registered on my radar back then. Then came the summer of 1982 and the World Cup in Spain. Sweden had not qualified, but Germany had – of course – qualified. Obviously, I set out to support Germany, especially since I saw my father take an interest also (he never really cared about sports, but soccer world cups he did follow and naturally he backed Germany).

      That tournament was a baptism of fire for me. In the first match, Germany had a shocker and lost to Algeria, and to this day that is the worst game ever by a German national team. In the last game of group stage, the German team was involved in one of the worst displays of poor sportsmanship ever (the football murder in Ovideo, google it if you want the details). It was an enormous public outcry after that game and the Germans were labeled as cheats (deservedly so also). But Germany somehow advanced through the tournament with some steely grit and an attitude that they would do anything to win.

      They were up against France in the semis. That game was an absolute epic with marvelous free-flowing play from both sides, Germany won after extra time and penalties, the score was 3-3 after full-time so it was as far from a stalemate one can come, and it was Germany that came from behind 1-3 with two late goals to even the score just before full-time.

      Well, that sounds great ha? It was if it was not for the German goalkeeper Harald Schumacher assault on the French player Batiston. Schumacher took him out completely with a tackle that was out of this world brutal and would have merited a red card even in rugby 1982, but somehow the ref completely missed it. To this day it is a mystery how the ref could miss it. And not only that, it should have been a penalty for France also, but the ref had a complete blackout (since this is rugby site, and there are many here who warms to some proper violence, here is a link: ). To say that Germany was the most hated team in the world after that game (and all the drama earlier in the tournament did not help) is an understatement.

      Germany went on to the final and Batiston stayed in a hospital for about five weeks and had six figure dentist bill to look forward to. In the final though, Germany ran out of luck, and a rampant Italy destroyed them with a magic second half performance. Yet, I cried for hours after the game and thought life was so unfair. I could not believe how something could hurt that much in my young life.

      Still, after that tournament, Die Mannschaft (the name of Germany’s national team) was deep in my heart and has stayed there ever since. To this day it is the team I love most in all sport.

      But apart from Die Mannschaft, I support Sweden in all other kinds of sports. At the Olympics, I could not care less about the German athletes, but a Swedish gold medal is an absolute highlight. Especially if we beat Norway in cross country skiing or beat Finland in ice hockey. I have followed Swedish tennis players with a passion in the Grand Slams, I watched every single race with greatest alpine skier ever Ingemar Stenmark. The list goes on.

      I have never ever really question my double loyalties, because it has felt completely natural. Some might say that it is little too convenient to cherry pick the German national team that just happens to be one of the best in the world, but I could not bother really because I know my love is real.

      And finally, when Germany plays against Sweden in football, how do I feel then? Those games are a little bit tricky because I don’t take the same pleasure out of winning them, and if Sweden wins? Well, it has only happened once in my lifetime, and it was very easy to take and be happy for all my friends and family who support Sweden. Especially since it was in a friendly,

      • August 21st 2017 @ 8:42am
        Rugby Tragic said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:42am | ! Report

        Interesting ….. Thanks for sharing neutral….

        • August 21st 2017 @ 7:45pm
          Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:45pm | ! Report

          That’s Tragic’s way of saying there was nothing wrong with the tackle.

          • Roar Guru

            August 21st 2017 @ 7:54pm
            The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:54pm | ! Report


            RT is the ultimate gentleman here at the Roar, so him I give him a free pass whatever he says or does or thinks. He is my favorite Kiwi.

            It is interesting to see how little fuzz the French players actually made of it, how little Schumacher seems to care (he just want to get on with the play), and how much soccer has changed since then. Imagine if that tackle happened today…

      • August 21st 2017 @ 9:30am
        Isupport2teamstheAB'sandanyoneplayingAustralia said | August 21st 2017 @ 9:30am | ! Report

        Started reading this post but my eyes starting glazing over within a few lines,which isalways the case when attempting to read the boring self absorbed ramblings of this poster

        • August 21st 2017 @ 11:07am
          Minz said | August 21st 2017 @ 11:07am | ! Report

          Well, I enjoyed it. So each to their own!

        • August 21st 2017 @ 6:22pm
          Dsat24 said | August 21st 2017 @ 6:22pm | ! Report

          Oh sure and… I support two teams… is very original PFFT

      • Roar Rookie

        August 21st 2017 @ 10:48am
        Liam Clarkson said | August 21st 2017 @ 10:48am | ! Report

        The world is a melting pot of cultures and I suppose it is not unusual to identify with more than one nation. Thanks for sharing.

      • August 24th 2017 @ 4:59pm
        moaman said | August 24th 2017 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

        ‘Die Mannschaft’…..literally ‘The Team’ –seriously? I didn’t know that.

    • Roar Guru

      August 21st 2017 @ 4:30am
      biltongbek said | August 21st 2017 @ 4:30am | ! Report

      If I were you I would jump ship to the Springboks, we aren’t that great either, and you won’t be looked upon as someone just looking for winning team either.

      Just saying…..

    • Roar Guru

      August 21st 2017 @ 5:17am
      Shop said | August 21st 2017 @ 5:17am | ! Report

      In the same boat Liam with parentage Liam and I have always followed the Wallabies and love to hate the AB’s yet also prefer to see the black caps win over the Aussies. I think it was growing up and being a big Richard Hadlee and Lance Cairns fan!?

      Word of advice regarding travel, the NZ passport is way better than the Aussie one. Lots of countries requiring visas or entry fees for Australian passport holders often don’t apply for Kiwis.

      • August 21st 2017 @ 5:49am
        Ken Catchpole's Other Leg said | August 21st 2017 @ 5:49am | ! Report

        What Shop?!
        Kiwis dont have to ‘go through the gate’ at airports either!!!?

        • Roar Guru

          August 21st 2017 @ 5:55am
          Shop said | August 21st 2017 @ 5:55am | ! Report

          Must be a conspiracy Ken. I also read in the Betoota last week that they were building a side entrance into ANZ stadium especially for Richie McCaw!

        • August 21st 2017 @ 8:28am
          rebel said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:28am | ! Report

          Very clever. Have to pay that one.

          • August 21st 2017 @ 8:59am
            taylorman said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:59am | ! Report

            Yes it was…saw Ritchies passport the other day…ten years old it is…and still no stamps…he’s good alright πŸ™‚

      • August 21st 2017 @ 8:52am
        lassitude said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:52am | ! Report

        That’s certainly true at Istanbul- or was up to my last trip there 2 years ago. All Anglo countries (IIRC) and a number of others had to line up to pay for their visa on arrival – except Kiwis who don’t pay and join the border control queue directly.

      • August 21st 2017 @ 6:05pm
        Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 6:05pm | ! Report

        A Kiwi passport gets you anywhere. It’s of very high value. You’re welcomed anywhere in the world with open arms. Such genuine, kind people you see. At the gate it’s generally, ‘Oh come on through Sir, lovely to have you’. With an Australian passport suspicious is immediately bestowed. ‘Is there a snake in the suitcase, sir? Or just a friendly poisonous spider? Oh great just five criminal convictions, Sir.’ Then of course it’s like ‘There you go, Sir. Enjoy your stay, here’s a one day visa.’

        With a Kiwi passport you skip the queue every time. The only time I had any trouble was when I was wearing a yellow top. And I think with a similar accent there was a genuine mix up.

        • August 21st 2017 @ 6:14pm
          Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 6:14pm | ! Report

          ‘With a Kiwi passport you skip the queue every time. The only time I had any trouble was when I was wearing a yellow top. And I think with a similar accent there was a genuine mix up.’

          Not sure if this is meat to be funny, but, if so, don’t quit your day job.

          • Roar Guru

            August 21st 2017 @ 6:24pm
            The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 6:24pm | ! Report

            Easy Tiger

            This forum – after a big AB’s win – is one the few places Kiwis can express a little hubris.
            Aussies, on the other hand, can express hubris whenever and wherever.

            • August 21st 2017 @ 7:16pm
              Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:16pm | ! Report

              ‘This forum – after a big AB’s win – is one of the few places Kiwis can express a little hubris.’

              You’re kidding, right?

              • August 21st 2017 @ 7:28pm
                Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:28pm | ! Report

                Just take breather, Fionn, and meditate. Start a positive mantra perhaps.

                I also know a talented graphic designer.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 7:29pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:29pm | ! Report

                I mean, I assume you’re being ironic, but I never can be totally sure with Europeans. Especially northern Europeans πŸ˜›

              • August 21st 2017 @ 7:33pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:33pm | ! Report

                Oh, I’m calm, Mr Hollywood, don’t worry.

                And, no thanks, it would sort of defeat the purpose, now, wouldn’t it? No pun should look too sophisticated or professional.

              • Roar Guru

                August 21st 2017 @ 7:57pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:57pm | ! Report

                Yep Fionn, the guy from the north – me – is being ironic.

                You don’t do irony down south?

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:01pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:01pm | ! Report

                Oh, we do, I just didn’t realise it was apparent anywhere on the Continent – especially in the deep dark north of the continent. Comedy out there is of a very different sort to that which we have in the Anglo countries.

                However, perhaps Sweden is the exception that proves the rule?

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:09pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:09pm | ! Report

                Out of interest, if you’re a fan of the old irony then do you love the Edgar Wright comedies, Black Books and the like?

                How about Karl Pilkintgon :P?

              • Roar Guru

                August 21st 2017 @ 8:36pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:36pm | ! Report

                Hi Fionn

                Never heard of Edgar Wright, but I am gonna google him right away.
                I am not sure if it can be called Irony, but an old comedy movie like Airplane I still find very funny. Fletch is another old movie in the same mold that still makes me laugh hard.

                I would say we have our own version of irony in Sweden that is pretty brutal (maybe it is the never-ending darkness six months a year that hardens us). For an outsider, it can be pretty confusing. Would love to show you some examples, but it will be lost in translation I suspect.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:51pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:51pm | ! Report

                When I was in Hungary over Christmas my cousins were showing me some Hungarian comedy. It was… bleak… to say the least… Judging by how depressing some of your crime fiction is I would imagine it would be similar to the Hungarian, just without the Communist hangover?

                The best Edgar Wright movies are Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. All else pales in comparison. Airplane and Fletch? Hmmm, I’ll check them out.

                Also, if you’re interested in the best WWII (and war) movie I’ve ever seen, search ‘Come and See’. I just went to look for the trailer to link to you but it looks like the whole movie could be on there broken into two parts but with a Cyrillic title, weird. Dunno, however, haven’t looked at the video so I could be talking nonsense, it just came up when I searched the name of the movie. It’d be weird if it was on YouTube, especially since I waited weeks and weeks for the DVD to arrive from like South Korea or something, wherever it was shipped from.

              • Roar Guru

                August 21st 2017 @ 9:13pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 9:13pm | ! Report

                Hahaha, yeah Swedish crime movies are lame and bleak. Stopped watching them a long time ago, despite a good friend of mine is one of the main actors in “Johan Falck”.

                Gonna check up “Come and See” ASAP. Thanks for that Fionn.

                Best WW2 movie for me is “Das Boot”. No competition really. If you have not seen it, check it out. A masterpiece. I rewatch it every year at least once.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 9:31pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 9:31pm | ! Report

                I’ve never heard of Johan I’m afraid :P. I like Swedish movies but they are just so bleak.

                I have seen that! Great film.

                This movie is… different. It is about the Nazi genocide of the Soviets during the Nazi occupation of the USSR. Horrifying stuff – imagine the themes of Apocalypse Now done far, far, far better (and I like Apocalypse Now). It was filmed sequentially over 6 months, and the 14 year old actor needed therapy after the movie, and his hair turned grey during the filming and suffered from psychological issues afterwards.

                Adapted from a book named Khatyn by a guy who was a partisan during the war in Belorussia.

              • Roar Guru

                August 21st 2017 @ 10:43pm
                The Neutral View From Sweden said | August 21st 2017 @ 10:43pm | ! Report

                Best Swedish movie ever is Fanny & Alexander. Ingemar Bergman’s last movie that won a couple of Academy Awards despite being in Swedish (no small feat). One of the actors in that movie (Jan MalmsjΓΆ) plays his rather evil character – a priest – so convincing that for many years he had trouble in his social life, hence people could not separate him from his character. I absolutely hated that priest character while watching the movie.

                Well, you are really selling “Come and See” at a high value here. Better than Apocolypse Now? That is seriously big words. In my little world Apocalypse Now (and the book the movie is based “Heart of Darkness”) is as good as it gets.

              • August 22nd 2017 @ 6:28am
                Fionn said | August 22nd 2017 @ 6:28am | ! Report

                Fanny and Alexander was indeed utterly fantastic. Thts interesting about the actor and the social life, however…

                Yeah, man, I to be honest I think it is much better than Apocalypse Now, it is just much subtler and more intimate than Apocalypse Now so it hammers home further, and the setting is better.

                I really like apocalypse now and Heart of Darkness, but I preferred the novel I think – the setting in the Congo was darker and more terrifying, and especially meeting Kurtz was a bigger moment.

          • August 21st 2017 @ 6:47pm
            Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 6:47pm | ! Report

            You’re very funny yourself, Fion. Throwing in ‘meat’ instead of ‘meant’. That was a great hook.

            Just one thing to, if you don’t mind. You usually accompany a terrific photo – the one with horse? Well I understand a guy photobombed your picture. He looks like he could be some kind of out of work actor looking for some attention, maybe some kind of break. I suggest you remove him and stick with the horse. I would just enlarge the horse. The horse looks great. Nothing wrong with the horse.

            • August 21st 2017 @ 7:23pm
              Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:23pm | ! Report

              I’m seriously hoping that was all sarcasm and you were aware it was Daryl Braithwaite.

              If not, the photo is ironic.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 7:37pm
                Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:37pm | ! Report

                That is good to know. No one will have hurt feelings now. I am very happy about that.

                If Daryl ever reads this: nothing wrong with your photo. You and the horse look great. It was just the attitude I was having a problem with.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 7:40pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:40pm | ! Report

                My attitude is fine, I just didn’t find your ‘joke’ particularly funny.

                It gets somewhat tiresome having a certain minority of Kiwis obsessed with comparisons with Australia. And, more than that, being better than Australia.

                Oh, and before you say it, yes, I get that it was meant to be a ‘joke’, but, as I said above, it just wasn’t funny.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:12pm
                Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:12pm | ! Report

                Okay Fionn. It’s okay. All good. I’m predicting your humour will get better as you age. Then you’ll eventually be able to recognise talent. Please don’t be hard on yourself.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:24pm
                Mr Hollywood said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:24pm | ! Report

                If you can, Fionn get yourself a kiwi passport then you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

              • August 21st 2017 @ 8:27pm
                Fionn said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:27pm | ! Report

                I don’t know why you assume I travel on an Australian passport.

        • August 22nd 2017 @ 8:38am
          Targa said | August 22nd 2017 @ 8:38am | ! Report

          It is also very cool having a black passport. I have travelled to some random countries and the immigration people love looking at such a beautiful passport

    • August 21st 2017 @ 7:28am
      Mad mike hoare said | August 21st 2017 @ 7:28am | ! Report

      Hahaha born in NZ, became an Aussie citizen in 93. Lived in oz since I was 10yrs old, it’s my home.. well into my 40’s. Have traveled extensively, never actually been back to NZ! I sound Aussie, lived cairns, brissy, GCoast Sydney, Bathurst, Adelaide. Have driven around most of and seen more of Australia than most people I’ve met. This year is the first time I’ve headed overseas using an Aussie passport. Finally giving it a run. Currently in Asia for long while.
      You take my Cool azz bro.. black with silver fern passport and my AB kit off my cold dead corpse!?

      • Roar Rookie

        August 21st 2017 @ 8:51am
        Phantom said | August 21st 2017 @ 8:51am | ! Report

        Good on you son.

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