HNY to you to Don.

Feel free to rip into Shaw, hopefully this is his last season. Sam Reid should be on your radar.

Oh how I have missed Roar over the past 3 months. Been lying low, starting a new job.

Great to see all the old faces are still here. And just as great to see an article having a dig at Freo’s “ageing” side and ever so quickly closing “premiership window”.

Hi all, glad to back.

Brilliant!!

This has been one of the most enjoyable back and forth bicker reads since I have been on here,

In Macca’s defense, the draft thins out pretty quickly after the first round, so dropping from 35 to 47 is probably not a bad thing to happen, to move from 14-10 and give yourself a better chance to get that player you have your eye on. The difference between 3-4 spots in the first round round could be eg Stephen Hill to Gary Rohan who Don has enjoyed pointing out in the past.

The difference between 35 to 47, well unless you are really lucky it could be jagging a Goodes or O’Keefe, or it could be a fringe player that never comes on.

I think considering what Geelong have picked up in Clarke, and what they have traded off in Christensen and Varcoe, two pretty accomplished premiership players, they have traded fairly aggressively.

Where I don’t support your argument Macca, is in saying that because Geelong have done this, it shows Freo up who have done nothing. Perhaps they don’t need to do anything? Geelong ind of tripped into their finals spot and maybe shouldn’t have been there. They really needed to do something to keep their list going.

In light of the injury marred season Freo had, and also in light of how confident their supporters are in their up and coming list, it is possible that they don’t need to do anything. Along with this, is the already highlighted issues of actually getting a player to come across to Freo unless he is heading home. And add to that, that the players available this season have not necessarily been what Freo need.

Backward trading for draft picks isn’t going to help them if they are looking to top up their list with quality players from a draft that thins out after the early rounds.

I’m really interested in that comment from Nat about what the lack of appeal is to come to WA. We’ve moved here in the last few years for family reasons (wife is a Perth girl and yes Dalgety, WA chicks rock!). It’s a long way from home but I love it here.

I get the 10 hours travel a fortnight issue as a black flag to lure trades. I wonder what the WC, Freo and the AFL do in the background to try and resolve this?

I wonder what changes in a draftees mind, from the point at 18 when the reality is he could end up anywhere, to that point as a 20 something and let’s say, Freo and the Eagles are genuine flag contenders? Is 10 hours travel a fortnight really on his mind?

Take some of these Geelong fellas that are good surfers and spend a bit of time down around Torquay…..would Margs not lure them? (3 hours south I know) Or are the great whites to big a threat 🙂 The Gold Coast sun or the dry heat down at Cottesloe and Scarbs? The crazy busy Sydney City or the laid back clubs and bars around Leederville, Mt Lawley and Subi.

I wonder how well marketed Perth is not just at trade time but all year round? I wonder what player managers put on the table when trying to get their players over here (not just money, but the hole package, what’s the best deal for a bloke to move here)? What else do Freo and the Eagles do to keep an 18 year old VIC fella on their books? For that matter, given the AFLPA wants players to have a choice of where they can play , what are they doing to make WA a viable option?

I am genuinely interested in this. Because it seems from some of the comments that the only option for WC and Freo is to draft and develop local kids or hope that someone wants to come home.

You guys really are red hot when it comes to heaping on it people when your team is analysed.

I took that sentence in a totally different context Don, that perhaps he means Fremantle are underachieving at the trade table. In recent years, they have had some doozies.

Don’t be so quick to jump on the author.

It is still not an unfair assessment.

“There is a reason to argue” which there is….Freo could do with a centre half forward who is ripe and ready to help them with a fair dinkum flag tilt…..”that Fremantle missed the boat on signing Buddy Franklin last year”, that they did, along with 16 other clubs because Sydney got him…..”A loaded contract may have been enough to lure the Perth born superstar back home”, which it could have, who knows. As you said somewhere else, they must have had pay Fyfe a fair bit more to keep him.

Gees you guys are red hot.

Interesting.

Although perhaps not like for like suburbs in their offerings which may be the reason for the difference. I wonder how Freo stacks up to Balmain or Rozelle, or perhaps even Bondi or Bondi Junction?

Yes Conchie, no doubt. But is has taken them 4 years to produce these 3 players.

I absolutely agree that the offset be fair.

I think in terms of the Heeney example, pick 19 is actually extremely fair, considering before angry Ed blew the academy story up bigger than it really is, Heeney was rumoured at around pick 25……all of a sudden he is pick 5. He either improved out of sight overnight (his suggested position changed in a matter of days) or…..go figure.

If the Swans turn out to be able to churn over round 1 draft picks (genuine ones) every year then I agree it is a little unfair if they keep getting them without giving up something. I would suggest it is highly unlikely they will produce a great crop every year, it has after all taken them 4 years to produce Brandon Jack plus the three we see this year. Brandon Jack is certainly not the type of player you would be crowing about missing out on. Time will tell on this years bunch.

Don’t forget, the Swans have given up round 1, 3 and 4 picks. Given the “can’t trade” debarkle and the rapid thinning out of the draft after the early rounds, I would say the AFL has done a fair job of ensuring the Swans don’t get much this time around. They will have to trade their second round pick for something better which will be hard to do and either trade or pass on very late round 5,6,7 picks and we are talking 75 and beyond. I’d actually say the AFL has done a wonderful job of screwing them over.

Meanwhile, I would suggest that whilst ever the strong talent producing states are strong talent producing states, these players are going to go into the draft and leave home. It’s natural.

If football was played at Uluru week in week out, then there wouldn’t be a problem, we would all be in the same boat!!

In fairness to the author, he isn’t necessarily saying that Buddy could have been a Docker. He is stating that in terms of a power forward, to replace Pavlich in time, there haven’t been many others except Buddy available. This season, it’s Mitch Clarke.

I don’t profess to know much about Fremantle either, but I tend to think a gun centre half forward, who’s ripe and ready (rather than Tabs who needs to develop) would be extremely handy if an aggressive flag tilt was still on the cards in the next two to three seasons.

We can get overly defensive when our team is being analysed in such a way.

And once again we have an NRL person trotting out a line suggesting the AFL wants to in some way take over in Sydney.

They can co exist……you do realise that.

Which part of Sydney do you live in? Rates where I am in Beechboro (WA) are way less than all of the suburbs I lived in back in NSW (Menai in South West Sydney, Cronulla in the South East and Bateau Bay on the Central Coast). Rental properties seem in the inner city of Perth are on par with Sydney, but if you drive 15min from the city of Perth you are well out of the city, and these prices compared to driving 15min out of the city of Sydney……are way lower.

My energy bills are less here to but I am running gas and solar. My phone bill is the same here as it was in Sydney, it’s the exact same bundle. Water is strangely enough, the same, except we are using more now as we have two kids.

Dining in Perth City is no more expensive than dining in Sydney City. Where are you dining? Go and have a meal at Aria.

You can’t really leave house prices out of cost of living, because one would suggest buying a house, and paying off a mortgage is a pretty big cost of living. We all try to pick this argument apart to make our state the winner but the reality is Sydney is still more expensive than Perth.

No offence to Perth or WA, but it is kind of its own little country over here and it does sometimes feel like it is the forgotten child.

Hi Balthazar

There are some big differences between WA footy and NSW footy. Stark contrast in fact which perhaps develop this misunderstanding of what the academy is all about now, and why it was set up initially.

As you rightly point out, the WA Football Commission owns and operates the Eagles and Dockers and is the governing body of the WAFL. So they have a vested interest in developing the game in WA. I agree with you, in part, that it is a shame you lose your local bred talent to interstate clubs. However, what I would say is…..at least you are producing them. After all, the majority of the talent that goes into the draft, comes from WA, VIC and SA, with NSW as a whole and QLD and blimp on the radar.

In Sydney, the lack of players coming out of Greater Sydney (not greater western Sydney, or regional NSW) was/is alarming. Up until the Swans Academy was set up in 2010, you can count on both hands, the number of players who had come out of Greater Sydney and made it the AFL. Even today, you only need to count twice on both hands. Everyone will chime in here and say it is more, but those players have come from Regional NSW, eg Luke Bruest.

There is no NSW Football Commission, which owns and operates the Swans and Giants, and is the governing body of the SFL (or AFL Sydney Premier Division, as it is now known), with a vested interest in growing the sport. There is the NSW/ACT AFL, one of the most poorly run sporting organisations in the country. Tasked with the job of growing the sport in 1998, they were given $9m from the AFL which they spent on forcing all SFL clubs to affiliate with an AFL club, and the rest went into Auskick. Great, so at the top end they tore apart all the tradition in the SFL, and at the bottom end encouraged more kids to play the game. In between; little effort was made to develop talent; no money was injected to the juniors to accommodate the influx of Auskickers; some program’s were developed at junior representative level (the NSW/ACT Rams) which most most clubs lost their 2-3 best under 16’s players as they weren’t allowed to play both, thus impacting the standard of footy.

The Swans ran most of the really good quality development program’s. I recall in the mid 90’s they ran the Cygnet squad, which took the best players from the former NSW Teal Cup tournament and placed them in an off season program. I believe this was one of the early program’s to help them pick up rookies. This has manifested itself, over time, into the academy.

Hence the Swans setting up the Academy, albeit some 12 years later. It is not so much about developing talent to keep for themselves, it’s just about developing talent. The AFL has done nothing to develop the game in NSW. As far back as I can remember, the Swans have been the ones to take the lead and work with schools and local clubs. So you can understand why they are a little protective of what they have created. Perhaps it is a bit unfair for them to want to keep the players on the books, but I for one know that if I created something that desperately needed to be done for the better of my industry, I would not be so keen to see someone else take control of it.

A colleague once said to me, “why should they have an academy, the draft is there for them to source talent”. The simple answer is “your right, the draft is there to source players…..from all around the country. What are the AFL doing to ensure there are more talented kids, coming out of Greater Sydney”. And the answer to that is….diddly squat.

The end result will be that the Swans Academy will end up feeding the draft, with the Swans not having any more right to the players than the next mob. Because clearly after the “can’t trade” debarkle, the Swans are on the AFL radar. Or, and quite sadly, the Swans will have to shut the academy down and that big area known as Greater Sydney that houses 21% of Australia’s population, will just go back to being a big black hole for Every other code to tap into.

It would seem the announcement has only just been made Tom.

Tell me this Tom, when the AFL decided that they would remove COLA earlier this year, and it was announced that it would happen over the course of 2015/2016 to the be replaced by a rent subsidy…….where was the announcement about the Swans not being allowed to trade? Did we just forget that important piece of the puzzle did we?

If it’s not an ultimatum or blackmail, then what is it? It’s a knee jerk reaction to someone who is genuinely scared about losing one of their players to the Sydney Swans. It is plain and simple, a disgraceful way to do business. They caused this. They have shown no cause to suggest Sydney have done anything wrong with COLA. And now they are saying “hang on a minute, Sydney have space in their cap and can attract another free agent……we have to put a stop to this”.

It comes days after they freed up another $300-$500k with Malceski moving on. Given they would have had two decisions to make in that arrangement a) offer him more to stay or b) let him go and trade someone in…..this is one of the worst scandals in VFL/AFL. It is conniving, deceitful and any other word that describes incredibly bad administration.

No TomC. It is not acceptable to use black male and ultimatums to prevent a club from doing what every other club is allowed to do.

It is unacceptable to suggest to the Swans that they are not allowed to trade, as they have done, every other season with COLA.

If they wanted to pull it immediately, then make that the rule. Don’t create a new rule just days after a major part of the team has departed as a free agent.

It is an absolutely disgraceful business decision based on scare tactics from other parties. IMO

I am still in a state of shock.

It is all pretty clear though why is has happened. The Swans must have made a play for Beams and Eddies head exploded. So he got on the phone to his mate who runs the AFL, and forced him to change the rules.

Either that, or Dangerfield approached the Swans, Buddy like, about moving to the club at the end of 2015.

The thing is, even without COLA, the Swans could still afford any one of the free agents that are floating around. The space freed up by Malceski, ROK and LRT would be enormous and even if some of that goes into Buddy’s contract, there is still ample space.

They may as well just trade and and remove COLA now. The allowance has meant three fifths of stuff all to the clubs ability to recruit players in the past and it certainly hasn’t provided any advantage (2 flags in 32 years, and didn’t give any advantage on GF day this year). Just bite the bullet and go after Danger next season. There is probably no need to trade this time around except for a tall defender.

The equality in the league is just get stronger every day…..

Wait for the announcement on the Academies in the next 6 months….

This is the exact point most of us have been trying to make for the last two seasons, COLA makes three fifths of stuff all difference to the Swans ability to trade players.

Given today’s announcement about the Swans losing COLA immediately if they trade in 2014-2016…….it wouldn’t surprise me if the academies were shut down very soon.

May as well get our hands on as many of these kids that we have developed, while we can.

Although it wouldn’t surprise me if there is a new rule brought out next week, “draft those three academy players, and you will have to player half of every game with your hands tied behind your backs”.

Equalisation, what a dirty word.

Good review Mastermind. I to would have had a lot more to say but I have to admit to feeling a bit like Natalie.

I cannot for the life of me understand the decision from the AFL to prevent Sydney from trading for players.

It seems to me like a panicked knee jerk reaction to the growing threat of Sydney being able to pick up someone like Dangerfield at the end of 2015. The stark reality is (I can’t quote factual amounts because I simply don’t have them) the Swans will free up in the vicinity of $1m-$1.3m with the departures of Malceski, ROK and LRT. Although I understand the tightness in the cap presented by the Buddy and Tippett deals, with the increase in cap next season, plus the usual reduced list that the Swans go in with you would expect them to retain a good portion of (maybe half) in their cap. More than enough to trade a reasonable type this year, or not.

Then next season the expected departures of Goodes and Shaw could free up another $1m, again with some of that going into the 3rd and 4th years of the big two deals. But I would think that still leaves a big wad of cash….COLA aside….to throw at someone like Patrick Dangerfield in the 2015 free agency period.

Today’s announcement squashes that.

If this is not a signal to all those out there that think the Swans are the AFL love child as, as Natalie hints to above, then I don’t know what is.

Gillian McLachlan certainly has a funny way of looking after a lovechilds. If anything, I would suggest that it has been his modus operandi, and perhaps with some assistance from a certain club president, to ensure that the Swans don’t just come back to this suggested level playing field of equality, but drop way below it. This could be the beginning of the single biggest dismantling of a team in the VFL/AFL history.

If the Swans happened to get up for a flag next season…..would there be an asterix or an asteroid next to it?

I’ll regret writing most of this later, but for now I am pretty content.

A post in another article analyses the defence pretty well. McVeigh will push back next season, as their is enough depth in the midfield. Reid will make a good tall defender. He is scarily frustrating to watch but I remember to blokes called Andrew Dunkley and Leo Barry who were worse at the same age and less skilful, he will come good. Alex Johnson is still there in the waiting but his knee issue could also see his career come to an end early.

A back six of Rampe, Grundy, Smith, McVeigh, Reid, Malceski, wouldn’t be too bad. With Shaw and Richards battling for their spots O’Keefe like.

As for the rucks, Pyke just needs to improve around the ground.

That they did Don, but the Hawks played some of their worst footy that day.

Freo probably played their best game all year.

The Dangerfield comment is funny, not unlikely, but I think he might go and join his mate Bernie.

I think if the result went the other way, Goodes would have retired. He still may, but I think considering he was one of few that stood up yesterday, he will play on.

I think the Swans will bring Derickx back as the second ruck.

Malceski to stay, Mitchell to go.

I reckon you are spot on.

Sorry for calling you a flog Balthazar. I read your post and I was upset.

When we were here having respectful dialogue with Hawks fans in the lead up to the game, you weren’t. So it kind of felt like you had just decided to come on and make your comments because of how you feel about the team rather than anything else.

As for me being unpleasant, I am sorry I come across that way. I would probably describe it more as cocky and overly confident. I say it how it is and don’t shirk the issue. It is an opinion site after all. I get tired of people who hide, stay in hiding, or only come out of hiding when it suits them.

And as for me being on here all year, i only started posting 8 weeks ago….must have made some sort of impact hey.

Your not a flog and given you are not a he as I thought, your knowledge of the game is impressive.

Olivia,

As far as the “where to from here”, I wouldn’t read into things too much. We played our worst football since round 1. We went into that GF with Tippett, Rohan, Llyod, Cunningham, Rampe, McGlynn, all playing in their first Grand Final. If you look at who played poorly….a good chunk of them come from these GF debutants. A lot for them to gain from the experience.

As for the others who have played in a flag win before and under performed yesterday, well our captain spoke pretty candidly about their efforts. Some of our leaders simply didn’t stand up.

As far as the season went and the other two finals…..we didn’t go too badly. I don’t think there is a lot that has to change, maybe tweaking a few things here and there.

The biggest thing for me is that if you are going to live by a set of values, you need to follow that through on the biggest stage and they didn’t. You would hope that there were some similar words from Longmire, to those of Bomber Thomson at the conclusion of 2008, “Don’t let that happen….ever again”.

All we can hope for is that we get another chance next season.