The more we tinker the worse it seems to get. The optics of this don’t appear to be great by World Rugby to be honest. Can only hope it does actually improve the game but I have my doubts. The administrators need to stop trying to make it AFL or NRL, both games I can’t stand (apart from State of Origin which admittedly is extremely entertaining) and they need to stop thinking we need to target those audiences. It’s a different sport for a reason. We seem to be fixated on new audiences and neglect the importance of respecting and retaining the present.

Jeez, the hate and resentment. I think you need to see someone buddy because that chip on the shoulder must be quite a burden. The hypocrisy though. If all the stakeholders lent their support, not to Erasmus, but to the issue he was addressing, we may not have been in the situation we are now. I have LOVED seeing all the whinging over the last few weeks about the poor/inconsistent reffing because where were all these people when Erasmus was fighting the battle alone. And now that the shoe is on the other foot it’s open slather because now it suits, and for you to blame Erasmus for the disrespect delivered today by others is a cheap shot, everyone can take responsibility for their own behaviour thank you. Erasmus is a visionary and saw this coming but the rugby world turned on him, got on their high horses, and the issues remain. I repeat, the concerns could have been supported whilst still condemning Erasmus’s conduct but I don’t recall this ever happening because everyone wanted to cast judgement and be the good guys. What the last few weeks have shown is there are a bunch (a huge number) of cowards and hypocrites no better than Erasmus but you continue to throw stones at him mate if that makes you happy.

I agree with you that opinions differ, and that alone says it was the right call. The hand motion, however, is definitely a backward motion. For such a big call (to penalise) it needs to be clear and obvious and im sure youbwould agree? That call alone would have ended SA’s tournament. If EE received that yellow he did before half time he’d have received a red instead with it being his 2nd. The issue is both the law and the inconsistency in enforcing it. It’s a massive moment so worthy of debate but I’d feel sorry for anyone in that situation being penalised. What we often see is a reactionary hand stuck out or the ball being struck upwards instead in an attempt to regather, and I reckon 7/10 penalties I disagree with. SA fortunate and living life on the edge but I don’t think the wrong call.

Yep, I agree with you that opinions certainly differ and that it’s subjective. 9 out 10 players would have been binned. Certainly very fortunate, but it would have been a shame to have a penalty try and yellow, meaning possibly a red later for Etzebeth had he still received that yellow he did, given its not clear and obviously forward. One thing for certain is if you watch the hand motion it’s a scoop back. It definitely was not a cynical slap down, it was an all or nothing play given the game was over if France scored at that time and was not just a hand being stuck out as is often the case. I can certainly say I hate the yellows and penalty tries for the vast majority of these that are ruled an infringement because you would be an idiot to deliberately knock it down and most don’t and it ruins the game. The precedent would suggest this could realistically have been penalised and ruined a tournament for SA and that’s sad. I’m honest enough to say if any other team were penalised for the same I’d feel sorry for them. This again points to the issue of the laws and interpretations.

I can’t say whether it was checked because there are many things that get checked in the background that we don’t come to know of. I would agree that it deserved to be checked if the officials were unsure, however, you and i watching from our armchairs dont have the luxury of their perspective. To them it mY so clearly have been legitimate. I am unsure why the French did not jump up and down if it was so clearly a false start. I would hardly say the French got “stiffed” on this one when all in all it appears the right call.

Apparently you’ve seen all the available footage then? And I mean, including from supporters on the side that I am lead to believe shows him getting his timing spot on. I have not seen it myself but you speak as matter of fact. If you said a metre, maybe you would have some credibility, but certainly not 5. I am also assuming you are up to speed with what constitutes a runup on the part of the kicker. I acknowledge the law still appears a little grey but I have read from many that very clearly have absolutely no idea yet still stong opinions on this.

Anyone can deliberately knock it back mate, the risk is that if goes forward it’s a yellow/penalty try in such a situation. It was scooped back not slapped down, nothing cynical at all. Big balls from Etzebeth and the right call in the end. Was not clear and obvious enough to overrule even if checked. Almost all players in such a situation would have been penalised, and it’s sad that Etzebeth needs to consider himself fortunate the right call was made.

Don’t have to catch it if it goes backward, he’s quite entitled to deliberately to it, he scooped it back rather than slapped it down (he’s a very smart player). I agree that most other persons in the same position would have been penalised but that’s irrelevant and does not mean it was the wrong call, that highlights the issue with how these are judged. If reviewed it would have needed to be clear to rule forward because thay meant penalty try/yellow. If ruled forward I’d suggest Boks would have been hard done by because it’s just not clear enough. So it could have been reviewed but nothing lost even though it was not. Also can you confirm with certainty that the chargedown was not checked in the background? The ball over deadball line was also not clearly deliberate. It seems Boks got the 50/50 calls this game and many don’t like that because it’s not the norm. I DO AGREE that the final penalty was the wrong call though.

I don’t have the energy to read reply to your full post (that’s not a go at you I just simply dont) RE Etzebeth, I have watched it numerous times and it is not clear that it goes forward. Was he lucky to get away with it? Absolutely yes. Was it the wrong call by the ref? I don’t believe so. Just because others would likely have been penalised does not make it a wrong call, it simply further highlights the state and the challenge of reffing, and the laws. You state “to achieve any other outcome other than a knock on is highly improbable” does not support any offence simply highlights the risk. He scooped it back, didn’t slap it up up or slap it down. I’ll have to agree to disagree with you on this and offer an apology for any offence to you I caused.

I won’t engage on all of your comment but what you clearly fail to understand RE the Etzebeth matter was it was knocked back and not forward….therefore nil offence. Should not be a hard concept to understand. Well done to Etzebeth for being so bold, celebrate a moment of magic and courage because if it went wrong it’s penalty try and a yellow. You may not like the outcome but the ruling is consistent with the laws.

Yes my apologies, I know it was a long winded one. I understand your point of view, I really do. I wish some SA fans would grow up, but your ratio of 10:1 in support of him is not the reality of it I can assure you. Remember my reference to hollow vessels making the most noise. There is intense heat being thrown around all over social media at South Africa/ns which is clearly getting too may immature SAFFAS worked up. Those SAFFAS who agree with you and I are not the ones getting emotional enough to jump all over social media. Please do not make the mistake of thinking he has the widespread support you think he has and painting us all with the same brush. On the SARU issue, I don’t understand it either Piru (rumour is they are actually furious with him so the question is why do they appear powerless if that is true), and I do blame them, but I feel it fair to also be very disappointed with World Rugby for not holding them accountable at the start, because if they had, we would not be at this point. No winners in this saga I’m afraid (out of SARU and World Rugby).

Haha, yes, I can get caught up and ramble on 😂

I fully agree with you Piru, but I do have a bit to add. Yes, World Rugby need to be seen to be supporting referees, but are they actually supporting referees sufficiently? Its like the refs are set up to fail by them. Its hard to expect more from the best refs but there are far too many poor ones that dont deserve to be there at this point in time (or maybe ever) and the good ones suffer for it. Despite wanting to be perceived as being in control it is very clear they are not, it seems they are more concerned about the perception rather than the heart of the matter. World Rugby have allowed this to go on. I can’t recall how long it took but I do know it took far too long for them to deal with Rassie after his first indiscretion. They needed to wave their big stick and lay out what would and would not be tolerated. Given the latest incident I would suggest this did not happen. Furthermore, if rumours are to be believed, SARU are furious with him (and again complex politics at play). If so, World Rugby have not only failed themselves, their employees (refs), and other nations who are tired or this, but the South African public as well who are also actually sick of this (heard the saying “empty vessels make the most noise” ? – i would suggest it is nowhere near the majority of South Africans that approve of Rassies behaviour) . As a SAFFA I’m hugely embarrassed by all this, which should have been nipped in the bud. So im massively massively peeved with them for that. Why should the English Rugby Union have to be reprimanding SARU and writing to them? Obviously because they don’t trust World Rugby to speak for them, and who truly does trust them? I reiterate though, I don’t agree with Rassie’s tantrums. I also think this needed to be a battle between himself and World Rugby rather than other coaches, unions, and the peanut gallery (public). I don’t recall him attacking individual unions, coaches, supporters etc? All this creates is an us vs them mentality as everyone does seem to be ganging up on SAFFAS at the moment (no denying some individuals deserve to be slated but this hatred is spreading far and wide). Personally, I don’t understand why the public are so invested in this, but I cannot and will not invalid others opinions and say they cannot and should not be outraged, I just don’t understand it. I actually think there is much positive that could come from this whole debacle but I don’t think World Rugby have the guts and honesty to make the most of it so I don’t think anything good will come of it unfortunately. We strive to make the game more professional than ever so why should we accept mediocrity with the administration. I fear they will do more harm to themselves than any other individual such as Rassie, SAFFA supporters or their game plan, or their refs. And finally, I get the importance of refs, but let’s not think they are doing us a favour. It’s not out of the goodness of their hearts they do it. Refs need to be honest with themselves and step down if need be. They make themselves available so must take the criticism, its par for the course. It just needs to be done behind closed doors and in a respectful way by union management and not as Rassie has done. If we are going all high and mighty then i wish everyone defending refs would do the same for the attacks on coaches as well, are they less human? I have said much but have more unsaid on this Rassie issue, which is a symptom and not a cause.

1). Not condoning Rassies outbursts, they should not be occuring
2). It would be a start if World Rugby came out and at least acknowledged their problem (week in week out shocking reffing) – can’t fix a problem if they can’t admit one exists.
3). Only my opinion, but i dont feel the bad calls are 50/50 (evenly spread) and it’s not the 50/50 calls that are the issue, it’s the blatantly obvious ones. But no, i don’t believe there is a conspiracy. Furthermore, even bad calls being evenly spread should not make it acceptable. Not my job to find a solution.
4). It’s IMPOSSIBLE for non-SA’ns to understand the SA mindset (complex factors at play , historical and present). Not an excuse for anything, just reality. Different pressures in life, and the Springboks have a different role to what other teams play. Whilst they continue to disappontment they still offer more hope than other things/teams in SA. This affects management and supporters.
5). SA massively underperform as a team which creates extra pressure (biggest underperforming team in my view)
6). SA’s gameplan (which most are against including SA’ns) puts them more at risk of bad decisions as they play to smaller margins.
7). Social media has no positive influence, on rugby, on anything. Every man and his dog has an opinion these days and its easy for all to get emotional. Even my post will likely upset someone, even though it’s not my intention a d simply my opinion.
8). Respect goes both ways, I’m amazed SOMETIMES at how refs speak to players. They are not children (although may at times behave like that). Yes, i’m equally amazed at how players behave but that’s not my point.
9). There is a problem which World Rugby are responsible for fixing – don’t blame refs – don’t blame Rassie – blame them. The refding issue and the Rassie issue, they have allowed both.
10). Refs should be elite – pay them 5 times more to attract the best of the best. I cannot accept the standard we are seeing as being what we should settle for. If you can’t police laws let’s maybe remove some? Even with technology that shows an offence or lack of things routinely get missed, so it’s not necessarily a technological issue
11). Independent broadcasters/unions should not have the influence they have on reffing/TMO decisions
12). And finally (I could go on) the player of the year nominations are just another highlight of the farce that is World Rugby. How can Ardie not be in there. Appears they are gutless and try walking this tightrope but are failing miserably, pandering to certain stakeholders to try keep the peace

I love this comment, because it is just so valid. The same reason as I can’t argue with suggestions that the powers that be should look at the number of substitutions allowed and the 6-2 split. If we are really to address the head injury issue then let’s be more thorough and sensible about it. There are certainly aspects that can be addressed that don’t require much brainpower. Cards ruin games, but your point is the real issue yet appears overlooked and we are now carding more than ever.

I’m not a fan of the defending team getting a 22 drop out when the ball is deemed held-up over the try line. Much prefer when it was a 5 metre to the attacking team who retained possession.

Yip, totally agree, get rid of the TMO. Apart from the obvious (chews up time)…THEY GET THE DECISIONS WRONG ANYWAY so whats the blood point. You would think eyesight would be a prerequisite as a ref but it appears not. This is the worst season of reffing I can remember and we need a reset. TMO for me is the obvious starting point because it’s easier to accept wrong decisions being made by the ref in the moment, and besides, some refs are too arrogant to actually listen to the TMO, and the TMO often too cowardly to disagree with the ref who’s overriding them. Just disgraceful.

Isn’t it amazing that everyone hates whinging about the ref but so many are happy to defend a diabolical decision….it’s the bloody equal but opposite. All these pathetic excuses about why it was awarded, and why it was the right decision, it’s poor form. The refs communication sucked. All it would take is a clear message, “You have 10 seconds to kick”, or 5, or whatever he deems appropriate, but something quantifiable and clear. I do not blame Foley. He’s trying to stay composed, make sure of the kick, and communicate in a full and raucous stadium, NOT waste time. I dont care about whether his teammates were aware or not, he clearly didn’t understand the urgency and hes got the ball. All those saying what Foley should have done have not been in that situation so very easy for you to all say. I find the lack of acknowledgment about the unfairness of the decision from a certain sector disappointing and weak. Takes much more courage to admit the ref got it wrong. Doesn’t change the result, but does show some humility. Would have been zero to little conversation if he let it play on, which shows he needlessly chose the controversial and difficult path given the debate. If he could turn the clock back there is no way he would make that same decision, and that’s because even he would know that he simply got it wrong and jumped the gun. Make an example by all means, but do it at the start of the game, not the final minute. He ruined an absolute spectacle for the spectators, the same reason we are trialling 20min red cards remember, because it’s actually about us. And a solitary decision could very well have now determined the Bledisloe and Rugby Championship outcome…and that’s not right. I’m not a bitter Wallabies supporter, I’m not even a Wallabies supporter, I’m just sick of how much defending of shocking reffing decisions is taking place these days and it’s not healthy. This post is an attack on those defending the decision rather than an attack on the ref. He got it wrong so move on, but please don’t argue it was right. This decision has done plenty of damage to the supporter-base in Oz in an instant so let’s not worry as much about what time-wasting is doing over time.

To all those saying this was the correct call. This is the equivalent of a cop fining you for speeding for doing 101 in a 100 zone. Yes offence committed, but you’d be unlucky to have the 1 in a million cop do anything about it, despite everyone being warned about speeding. You would hate the cop and feel aggrieved as those doing 110 go whizzing passed the cop on the next highway. It was not the time to make an example, that you do at the start of the match. This poor decision was the only one of the game that 100% determined the outcome. I am bemused that people try justify it based on technicalities that this supposed black and white warning to Foley. Imagine Foster if the shoe was on the other foot. Even “kick it now” usually affords a small delay. Wallabies robbed plain and simple. Justifying it is simply clutching at straws.

Oh this old chestnut again. Cookie, what is bizarre is anyone defending that excuse of a tackle. I won’t say anything more on this for fear of sounding like a “whinging” or “one-eyed” supporter but you bringing this up again is hypocrisy in my view. I thought it was awesome when at the game, upon review and after repeat after repeat, my mind was firmly made up.

Have always been a fan of MK and still am, he’s phenomenal and gives everything on the field. Having been at the game and not having the luxury of good clear television footage I thought it was a fantastic tackle. However, upon review at home this morning it is clear it was a hit with the shoulder, with the image doing the rounds attempting to legitimise it by showing the arm in use actually being a moment after the shoulder. At the speed MK hit Mapimpi at and the fact no arms were initially used it was a courageous but reckless tackle deserving of a penalty try and a yellow so don’t understand how it can be celebrated. Great effort but poor tackle

Would have to agree, I thought the same, because I can’t accept that they suddenly can’t grasp the simple concept of playing advantage.

The incident definitely should not have happened, no excuses, it’s not on. But World Rugby should maybe look at themselves and the reasons why it did (i.e why RSA actually feel they have needed to resort to this level of scrutiny and confrontation). As many have agreed, it is not typical of RSA, so what’s changed?

Yep, I agree. I am truly hating rugby at the moment, and the way the Boks are playing is now just a small contributor to my unhappiness. I am just so over the endless criticism and negative press, irrespective of how much I may agree with a lot of what is being said. The majority (the overwhelming majority) of Bok supporters are against what is currently going on, and it’s a minuscule minority of Bok supporters who are defending it. It seems the critics don’t realise it or don’t want to accept it though. “Empty vessels make the most noise”, it’s applicable to both sides in the arguments of late. Some comments from South African’s are astounding, but the fact people even bother to offer a response most of the time to these astounding comments is even more shocking when clearly they are emotionally charged nonsense not worthy of attention. I can only pray for some respite though. Blame the Boks as much as you like, but rugby supporters and the media it seems are no better and doing their part in damaging the game.

I don’t see the issue with RE being waterboy, can someone please enlighten me? Is it because he’s pushing the boundaries? If that’s the case, without pointing fingers, I can think of some that are regarded as the best to have played the game who are revered for not only pushing the boundaries, but crossing them and getting away with it. So double standards?

Whilst I don’t think RE’s video release was the best way of going about things, I think it is a much needed wake up for World Rugby, and good on him for having the balls. The conventional channels would have achieved nothing. Whilst every team has suffered shocking calls at some point, South Africa seem to have had more than their fair share, but I know many will disagree. Siya’s treatment in the 1st test was inexusable.

This series should NEVER have gone ahead. Nothing good was ever going to come of it. Those outside of South Africa can never understand the tension in the country at the moment, with the turmoil of the looting and riots that occurred during the series, as well as being ravaged by Covid. South Africa is falling apart, day by day, that bad, and 1 thing the citizens can hold on to for hope at this time is the Springboks. Whilst I am not suggesting other teams do not have issues and do not play with high emotions, I don’t think outsiders understand the difference the Springboks face.

I think after the first test, which was an abomination, emotions blew, especially with the way Siya was treated. I don’t subscribe to the belief that he needs to be more outspoken. Whilst he clearly does need to be, it should not be so. I also don’t like mind games at all, but all teams are guilty of this. Suddenly because 1 goes further than another there’s a problem. It’s like sledging in cricket, I detest it.

Regarding the boring rugby, I don’t think the Springboks had any other option given their lack of prep. I think it’s easy for outsiders to judge though. The fans would have preferred a win over glamorous rugby, which would have backfired. I don’t think it’s fair to expect fans to deal with more disappointment simply to satisfy outside observers. Truth be told, what’s more boring than kick and chase is the All Blacks being so bloody good and always winning. New Zealand rule the roost with running rugby, so nothing to change for them. When the Aussies start winning with running rugby then they can speak. Anything that challenges the best should be welcome, and nothing will dictate how they or others must play. I can also think of many spectacles in past years involving Springbok running rugby, not so???

Personally I think this media hype attacking South African rugby is doing more damage to rugby than the series would have. It’s easy for journalists to sit from a far and cast judgement though, clearly neglecting what’s at the heart of the problem. This article has truth to it, but neglects a lot in my opinion, really letting it down.