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Ben S

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Joined July 2010

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You’re contradicting yourself now. Your initial statement was that Test forwards are the finished product:

‘all the english forwards enter test rugby as the finished product. That is the same for most first choice test forwards regardless of age.’

You totally ignored the premise that the majority of hall of famers (in the tight five) were far superior players toward the end of their career than they were in the beginning.

Bench pressing has absolutely nothing to do with forward play. We are talking about running lines, angles of support, understanding when to commit to a ruck or maul etc. This comes with experience.

Wallabies national training squad announced

Robinson reached a peak around 09/10 and since then has been half the player.

Daley and Ma’afu were only used to to injury against England as far as I recall, and Weekes has never been capped. Cowan has totally dropped off the radar too. There are five Australian sides, which means 10 starting props to choose from and then some replacements. Deans has persisted in picking players out of position and choosing unfit and out of form front rankers.

Wallabies national training squad announced

Interesting stuff.

The front row will be a problem area IMO as Werner Kruger is simply not of Test standard, and you don’t want your two starting props having to play regular 80 minute games, especially with the introduction of the Argentines.

Not sure on Daniel. He has had an excellent Super season, but I think he was exposed physically against England.

How will Meyer manage his players?

Fine, but all of what I said is relevant. I would bet all the whiskey in Ireland that Mumm gets game time in the back row.

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

I read that Pocock was trying to get Foley on board with the Force.

Foley gone: Waratahs official media release

Yes, that’s a fair point, but my point was that Connolly tried a plethora of players whereas Deans just continues with the status quo, which really isn’t doing anybody any favours.

Agree re: Vickerman and Elsom, but Vickerman seems immune to criticism.

Wallabies national training squad announced

Fair do’s, Tristan. Point noted.

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

Oh wow…

Henry's 'final word' on suspected match-fixing in RWC 2007

Possibly, but at loosehead they’re going to have to usurp Crockett or Mackintosh at the Crusaders and Highlanders, both of whom are stalwarts, and not Test players. There is a spot up at 1 at the Chiefs now, however. I don’t believe in wholesale changes, and I appreciate public expectation on the All Blacks, but now is the season to blood players, and Ben Franks on the bench isn’t doing anybody any favours. I think Hansen missed an opportunity against Ireland, and With England and SA both blooding young players, I think Hansen might find himself behind the 8 ball the season after next.

Dane Coles gets call up to All Blacks camp

For the umpteenth time, can you please not be rude. There is no need for your tone.

Right, there is a difference in being ready for Test rugby, and being the finished article. Simply being selected for Test rugby does not mean you are a Test player as we have seen with countless players. So, I’ll ask you again: You are actually saying that no Test match forwards improve as they age, and that upon their debut they are as good as they will ever be?

Wallabies national training squad announced

I guess you’ve not heard of squad depth, and the fact that Baxter mentioned that Mumm was a back five forward, and also the fact that Baxter likes to recruit forwards who can play in multiple positions. I guess you’re also missing the point that Johnson, under EPS arrangements, won’t be playing every game for the Chiefs…

If you want to go back to the SA v England threads, then you’ll note I spent a lot of time talking about Johnson.

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

I see. I’m really not sure what you think is going on here? I don’t understand what you’re saying given there is nothing I’ve said to suggest I don’t know who Sharpe is. I did actually live in Sheffield for three years.

Listen, as much as I think this sort of attention is especially odd, I’m more than willing to give you my postcode, Millwall season ticket number, favourite pubs etc. Just anything for you to stop pestering me. It’s a bit unsettling now, and you’re ruining threads and embarassing yourself. If you want to talk rugby then please do, but just give everybody a break.

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

‘all the english forwards enter test rugby as the finished product. That is the same for most first choice test forwards regardless of age.’

That is arguably the most absurd thing I’ve ever read on a rugby forum. You are actually saying that no Test match forwards improve as they age, and that upon their debut they are as good as they will ever be?

‘Etzebeth is what 20? he’s better than every lock in australia.

So? That doesn’t mean he has no room to improve.

Wallabies national training squad announced

I think there’s going to be some real pain when Woodcock, Hore and Mealamu depart the Test scene. I think Faumuina and Tamefuina need to get some game time off the bench this coming 4N otherwise there could be some real issues going into the next WC.

Shame about Romano. I’ve been increasingly impressed by him.

Dane Coles gets call up to All Blacks camp

I think the thrust of this issue is that you either understand forward play or you don’t, as Jiggles states. It is generally accepted that props, and locks, develop more slowly than other players, and tend to reach their prime in their later years. Any basic flick through rugby history will confirm the same. And even if this weren’t the case, to suggest that players aged 25 and under are in their prime is simply ridiculous, because logically we have no idea how they will develop.

Also, Corbisiero isn’t one of the most dominant props in world rugby. That’s simply ludicrous. He’s started a handful of Tests, and has done very well in some, and less well in others.

That Cole has shown consistent improvement over the past two seasons suggests he is on an upward curve, rather than at his peak. The same applies to Corbisiero.

Wallabies national training squad announced

Haskell just finished in Japan, the same as Weepu and Nonu, and look how long it took them to fire up too.

I can’t see how you can say he hasn’t grown as a player? I would imagine that aspects of his game have improved, if not his discipline. He certainly played well against SA in the 3rd Test.

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

Can you stop stalking me please. I’m finding it quite odd now.

London 2012: Opening ceremony full of shocks and surprises

Hard to reach any concrete opinion on this, IMO. Deans was in charge of the Crusaders under a totally different context. I wouldn’t seek to undermine the titles he won, I’m just not sure that the comparison between the two coaches is particularly apt. Also, the writer is just using this as another pro-Deans tool because he’s unable to point to anything tangible in his time as Wallabies coach. OJ makes a number of good points further down the page.

Awesome Super Rugby final sees Chiefs vs Sharks, SBW vs Pietersen

It would be hard to argue that players like Marler etc are in their prime because we haven’t seen their entire career play out. You have no idea what heights they will hit, and given the improvement in the tight that Marler, for example, has shown this season, it is quite likely that he has greater room for development. Propping is like boxing – styles make fights, and the more props you encounter the more varied your technical ability should become over time, hence props develop the older they get. Is Mas better now than he was 5 years ago? Is Healy better now than a few seasons ago? Adam Jones? Dan Cole? Mike Ross? Allan Jacobsen?

Wallabies national training squad announced

One thing that I think Connolly deserved credit for was actually trying alternatives in the front row: Holmes, Robinson, Dunning, McIsaac, Paul, Hardman, Moore, Freier, Shepardson, Baxter, Blake. With a comparatively small playing base the one thing that you need to do as a coach is find alternatives. People only tend to recall the forward smashing the pack took off England in the 07 WC, but Connolly knew there were front row issues and tried basically every option that was available to him, even if most of them didn’t work out. With this in mind I can’t see the value in persisting with players like Alexander.

Wallabies national training squad announced

He wasn’t signed just as a lock. He was signed as a lock/back five player. Don’t know what Tom Johnson has to do with anything either?

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

Wow. Just wow.

I didn’t write anything about Napoleon. Katzilla, another long standing rugby fan, made a gag about Sharpe and I responded. Please don’t misquote me.

I’m genuinely a bit shocked, but whatever floats your boat…

Favourite teams and forwards of 2012

They might well cross, undoubtedly, I just think it’s a bit tenuous making claims of a SB Williams v Pietersen clash.

Awesome Super Rugby final sees Chiefs vs Sharks, SBW vs Pietersen

Edit: Cheers. Totally forgot about that…

Pocock quits Western Force

Seems overly harsh on Blackadder simply to keep waving the Robbie Deans flag. If you;re going to disingenuously mention Dagg then you should mention the Franks brothers, Romano, Sam Whitelock and Read.

Pietersen was excellent. Not sure he’ll have much contact with SB Williams, however, given they play in different positions.

Awesome Super Rugby final sees Chiefs vs Sharks, SBW vs Pietersen

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