What expansion ?

Thanks. I do, I am, I will.

That mercenary mentality is what has crippled Rugby League’s development. It harmed it when the Vichy Government favoured the more communal of the two Rugby codes and it is harming it now.

Exactly Aiden. Until there is a critical mass that moves against League towards one or more of the other codes the media and political elite in NSW and Qld will continue to back Rugby League. Look at the free wall to wall coverage the game gets at State of Origin time. It almost makes me want to take my holidays in May/June to get away from it. The hype is sickening. Mickey Mouse could run a sport under such favourable domestic conditions. Outside of that zone, it’s a completely different kettle of fish and League is getting left behind. V’landy’s can spin it however he likes and Rugby League supporters can buy into the fantasy but that’s all his pipe dreams will ever be, a fantasy.

I care. I’m with Aiden and the rest of the world. I’ve stopped watching League. Too many other things to do and to watch.

“You are happy to put us both in our place.” Thanks for letting us know Guru. That explains your deep seated angst because you have repeatedly failed to do so. I will give you points for highlighting my failure to capitalise “the Kings English”. That was indeed an oversight. See, I acknowledge my mistakes. You are incapable of doing so and you have made plenty. You made one in your last post. I did initially feel sorry for you given that you are forced to defend the indefensible but you don’t debate so much as belittle. Your comments are tantamount to trolling. You, are the one that is full of it. Whatever ……………………….. I’ve got better things to do with my time than read your vitriol.
P.S Guru, do you have a reference for me for that 99.9 % claim. 😂

“No, you’ve just stumbled out of the aged care centre old fella. You keep shouting at the clouds wishing it was 1955.” and you have the nerve to tell me to grow up. Are we too old or are we too young ? You are a bully Nat and not a very successful one. Seriously, you only have 5.5 thousand views compared to my 8.2 thousand views. You have commented 17k times. Wow, You really need to get a life and give everyone a break from your toxicity.

You have made multiple spelling mistakes during the course of this debate and you think that you can lecture me on the correct use of the kings english ? In the context that I used it, a “reference” is a noun. Stop splitting hairs. Do you think I don’t know that “reference” can be used as either a noun or a verb ? I copied the page for your benefit not mine Sunshine. Why do you draw a distinction between International Rugby and Club Rugby ? Do you have something to hide ? Why the deflecting yet again ? When was the last time Thugby League got 70k to an international game ? You struggle to sell out the NRL Grand Final. You only got 58k to the Challenge Cup final last year. Back in the 1980’s Rugby League were regularly getting close to 90k at Wembley for the final. What’s gone wrong ? Rugby enjoyed 70k plus crowds three times in two days this weekend and it will be much the same next weekend as well. Yes, you are correct Rugby is blessed to enjoy the financial benefit of multinationals like MasterCard, Emirates, Asahi and Coca Cola. Who sponsors the Rugby League ? BLUEBET. Enough said. Rugby is also blessed to be partnered with many of the world’s leading NGO’s. If they or some other independent academic source like the University of Bath or the World Health Organisation should choose to write a report on the growth and health of Rugby Union, so what !! Why wouldn’t Rugby choose to promote it. I’m sure Vlandy’s would if the shoe was on the other foot. Since when does a press release and an independent report have to be mutually exclusive ? The government regularly conducts independent reports and studies and publishes and promotes the findings. I have referenced (yes, that’s a verb this time daddy) numerous examples over the last few days. Peter Fitzsimmons wrote an article in Saturdays SMH describing the Vegas experiment as little more than an expensive selfie. I will leave the link below. It’s rather amusing. Even NRL journalist Danny Weidler speculated that he didn’t know who was going to offer the NRL free to air coverage in the states after those appalling figures. Don’t linger too long over the comparison you wish to draw with the MRL. The MRL has just inked a deal to broadcast the entire season in North America on Fox sports. I think you might be developing a little Alzheimer’s because I told you my reference for Agen’s budget came from the “city am” financial website. Not only are you a bore but as I said before and it bears repeating, you are increasingly beginning to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Here is another link from Yahoo finance that clearly states the same and in turn it cites their sources. https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/half-second-tier-french-clubs-090000746.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=ma
I’m so sorry Nat but you lost this argument a long time ago and have been determined to deflect and play the man, not the ball ever since. Your comments are those of a bully, a bigot and a zealot. This is my last post because It is clear that I cannot influence somebody as closed minded as you. Maybe you and your small circle because to be a Rugby League supporter is to be a part of a very small circle indeed, will see the light but if you do, make sure that the light that you do see at the end of the tunnel is not, figuratively speaking of course, an express train coming straight towards you and your little game. As stated in the numerous reports I referenced earlier Rugby is an inclusive game and I am sure you would be more than welcome at the Rugby World Cup in the U.S.A in 2031. I wish I could say that it has been enlightening but It hasn’t been. See ya champ !!

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/despite-the-spin-the-nrl-faces-a-long-road-to-win-over-the-yanks-20240308-p5fatr.html

REFERENCE:
1. the action of mentioning or alluding to something.
“he made reference to the enormous power of the mass media”.
You are sounding a bit repetitive. Nat, old boy. You’re not using AI are you ? Seriously, What would you have me do ? Supply footnotes. Do you think i’m publishing a doctoral thesis ? 😂 Most people would have got the point by now but you seem intent on deflecting what you can’t bare to admit. That your game is on the path to nowhere.
This weekend was yet another red letter weekend for Rugby. Italy beat Scotland before a 70,000 sell out crowd at the Olympic stadium in Rome. That’s right 70k in Rome, that’s 25k more than attended not one but two games of Rugby League in Vegas last week and the stands weren’t full of ex-pat Aussies or Scots for that matter. The stands were filled for the most part by Italian Rugby supporters. They will be back next year. Can the same be said for Rugby League support in Vegas ? Don’t worry Nat, it wasn’t that bad……… look at the silver lining, at least you had more people attend Allegiant stadium than watched the second game on American TV. 😂 Sorry, I can’t stop laughing, because it really is pathetic. Perhaps, if you missed the Italy match you might have had a chance to see the full house in Lautoka watch the Fijian Drua beat the Crusaders. Isn’t that supposed to be one of your much vaunted catchment areas ? Perhaps if you missed that game you might have seen the 80,000 at Twickenham watch a tight contest between England and Ireland. I bet that game knocked the socks off the ratings when compared to the Eels vs Doggies 😂
As much as I would love to stay and deconstruct your single issue obsessed argument but I plan to catch up on a bit of the Japanese One League (That’s Rugby of course.). Nobody seems to have told the World Cup winning Springbok players that Nat from Australia thinks it is a league for retirees. Is it the worlds best League ? no, but your misconception is fast becoming an outdated one. The Japan League is attracting some of the worlds best rugby talent and that includes not just players but coaching staff. “Springbok half De Klerk and centre Jesse Kriel are teammates for the Yokohama Canon Eagles. Other starting members of the South African World Cup squad that play for League One clubs, include: forward Pieter-Steph Du Toit, who was named World Rugby Player of the Year in 2019 (Toyota Verblitz); center back Damian de Allende (Saitama Wild Knights); and wing Cheslin Kolbe (Tokyo Sungoliath). At least 20 players on national teams at the World Cup have signed with League One squads, including those who will join the Japanese league after the quadrennial tournament. From New Zealand, scrum-half Aaron Smith and stand-off Beauden Barrett. They will join Toyota Verblitz next season, while four others from the All Blacks are set to play for League One clubs.” . I wonder who they will poach once they have poached all the Springboks and All Blacks Nat ? Japanese supporters understand what you don’t seem to and attendances have climbed 20 % year upon year since the highly successful 2019 World Cup in that country. I’m very concerned that you might accuse me of failing to reference this information so for your benefit I can disclose that it is an extract from THE ASAHI SHIMBUN – October 22, 2023 at 07:00 JST. Not that you will take any notice. You have proved incapable of doing your own research despite the multiple references I have given you. I feel so sorry for you that I have included a link and yet another reference at the bottom of this post. I hope it enlightens you because to be honest Sunshine, you are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist. Humble apologies for the verbose response but what can I say, Rugby has a lot to crow about. 😁
https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2023/march/rugby-s-social-impact-uncovered-mastercard-report-reveals-five-trends-and-15-pioneers-shaping-the-sport-ahead-of-the-rugby-world-cup-2023/

Thanks Einstein. That means a lot coming from you. Hope you get around to reading both the Portas Consultancy report and the Rugby Regulation Authority report I referenced earlier. You might learn something. 😂

Are you blind as well as dumb. I have listed multiple sources. You choose to ignore them just as you choose to ignore reality. Whatever …… enjoy your little game.

Stop arguing with your shadow Nat. It’s pathetic. You are becoming a bore. I just told you that Brive has a salary cap twice that of the Roosters and I quoted the source. You seem to have overlooked that detail in your rebuttal. Do the Sharkies have a salary cap of 23 million aud ? NO. THEY DON’T. The professional championships commission of the Rugby Regulation Authority, formerly DNACG, published a complete report well over a year ago on the accounts of the 2021-2022 season for the Top 14 and Pro D2 clubs. The Top 14 and the Pro D2 have seen operating income rise by 43% to €515 million or 850 million AUD, compared with just under €360 million the previous year. That, I stress was for the 2021/22 season. The trajectory post world cup is likely to have grown exponentially since the date of that report. Why would Tongan rugby players go and play in Romania or America or Italy for that matter if it wasn’t for a liveable wage and so what if all the Pacific Islanders did end up playing Rugby league. I don’t wish for them to do so and they won’t all go of course. They are welcome in Rugby at any time but there are over 804,000 registered rugby players in South Africa. Tonga only has a total population over 100k and Samoa’s population is 206,000 so it’s a peculiar argument that you are making. Rugby league will suffer i’m sorry to say a death by a thousand cuts just as Rugby did in the 1980’s but in League’s case death, if you will excuse the pun will be permanent. As each marquee player comes on the radar Rugby League will begin to loose not only the support of the general public but the political and social elite in this country that by and large choose to turn a blind eye to the concussion issues, the gambling and anti-social behaviour that plague the sport. There will be no more funds for stadiums then, the Berejiklian government has already balked at rebuilding Homebush and her government wasn’t even a Labor one. Everyone loves a winner NAT. To paraphrase Paul Keating, “We will do you slowly”. The player drain will begin as a trickle but as sure as day follows night it will become a flood. Most of the players are increasingly likely to have some kind of Rugby Union background anyway which proves the old adage, you can’t reap what you don’t sow. Gus Gould probably doesn’t read the bible that much but I’m guessing he knows that excerpt and will no doubt chuck another hissy fit when the next Star departs, just as he did when the Sua’ali’i’s transfer was confirmed. It must have touched a nerve as I suspect it has with your good self. Why wouldn’t it because the writing is on the wall, perhaps i’m a bit premature in delivering the last rights but that day will come as sure as night follows day. What will remain of Rugby League will be a kind of shell of an amateur game still played amongst die-hards like yourself in remembrance of the good old days but by then I couldn’t guarantee that your code will even have access to the facilities of Henson Park which are already being shared each alternate week with the AFL. By the way Nat …… what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, How are the Newtown Jets going these days ? Silly me, I know they are playing in the NSW Cup because I go to watch them at the food and footy festival each year. Therein lies a cautionary tale of what happens to professional clubs when financially mismanaged. It’s not exclusive to English Rugby or NFL or to Rugby League. It’s a by-product of professionalism which in Rugby’s case is little more than a quarter of a century old but at least Rugby isn’t guilty of that cardinal sin in financial matters of keeping all their eggs in the one basket like the NRL. Of course I have a higher eduction Nat. I thought you might have noticed from my correct use of grammar and spelling and my superior argument but you don’t seem to notice much do you. Did YOU finish high school ?

FMD !! Exactly, I think you mean VAIN not vein. I don’t even know what question you are referring to. Was it the one about a guaranteed $120k + benefits for all rookies in their top 30. Seriously, Is that the only measure that you wish to compare the health of the two codes with….. In all honesty, I don’t know specifically what each individual player is paid but I felt as though I made it clear in the previous post that it is a mute point. Tennis doesn’t offer the most equitable and fair division of revenue to its players either but it is nevertheless a major world sport.
I suspect nothing will convert your bigoted opinion but for what it’s worth even the French second division Rugby teams like Brive have a salary cap greater than NRL clubs. This following extract is from the financial news website “city am”, so don’t claim I didn’t provide you with full disclosure.
“France’s top two leagues, the Top14 and ProD2, have salary caps of around £8.8m (excluding players who graduated from academies) compared to England’s £5m (with one player excluded).
It is understood that the highest possible cap in England, where clubs receive credit and payments for reaching certain objectives, is just over £7m – though whether a club is operating at this level this season remains unknown. Brive, who recently sacked their manager are operating at between €15m and €16m while other clubs such as Agen are working to a budget of €14m.”
In case you are wondering 14 million euro is roughly the equivalent of $23 million AUD. 7 Million pounds will get you roughly about $13.5 million AUD and probably a couple of League players as well if you should want them. Even Romanian Rugby has got in on the act and is pinching half of the south pacific’s talent. They have a couple of promising wingers from Tonga. Fonovai Tangimana is particularly impressive. Really Nat, it’s time now to just enjoy your little game and be happy that you only have to go to a local park and that you don’t have to travel all the way to Bucharest to see it.

Really ? Thanks for holding me in such high esteem Pickett. I wish I could say the same for Rugby League’s integrity. I must say I am actually rather pleased with the comment. I thought it an almost the perfect aphorism.

That’s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. You haven’t told me which of my claims are dubious ? Is it because none of them are Nat. What B.S am I spouting exactly ? Construct an argument before you begin slagging off. I just gave you a reference. It’s a report from global management consultancy firm PORTAS CONSULTING. It’s written in black and white. You can read can’t you ? I also referenced an article titled “The rise of rugby in America” By Paul Heires dated Nov 27, 2023 from the Nebraska News, I referenced the Hong Kong Rugby Union website, an article titled “Winds of change blowing as Japan plan to tackle rugby’s powerhouses” is another interesting article written by Robert Kitson and published in the Guardian newspaper on the 12th of December 2023, These are all somewhat random choices but I referenced that as well and of course I referenced the World Rugby website. I also referenced an article by Peter Fitzsimmons in last weeks SMH. Furthermore I suggested that you take any lingering insecurity’s you might have directly to Rys Jones head of World Rugby’s “game analysis”.
I did not disclose all of these references initially for fear of being too wordy and baffling you. You seem to struggle to see the wood for the trees Nat. There is plenty of money and growth in Tennis too yet it has long been criticised for its equitable distribution of prize money. It has a global footprint so I don’t except the premise of your question, if indeed that was the question. If anything, in raising the point you have inadvertently highlighted why Rugby League has not grown. Rugby League has self harmed itself over the years spending more than it can afford. Champagne tastes on a Chardonnay budget. The Australian Rugby Union are doing much the same thing now for what it’s worth. Now Rugby League is desperate to keep the politicians on side it wants to be seen to be fair and inclusive but in doing so it leaves little in the way of funds to grow the game much beyond the suburbs. Have you forgotten that petulant ignominious performance by V’landy’s crying like a baby to the politicians at the beginning of Covid to help keep the game alive ? Good luck trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear Nat and if you ever do find out what claim of mine was dubious please let me or Rys know. Better than burying one’s head in the sand wouldn’t you say.

But it’s you buddy and V’landy’s and Abdo of course, doing the song and dance about going to Vegas. Whoopie doo !!

Really, The Olympics now !! 😂 . Now you are questioning one of the worlds most influential Non Government Organisations which is directly affiliated with some 206 National Olympic Committee’s and their National governments. Of course not ALL 206 affiliated government bodies help to fund Rugby’s development but many do.

The report that you insist on me sourcing was developed in collaboration with global management consultancy firm Portas Consulting. The report has been developed using a model created based on peer-reviewed academic sources and best practice. Data for the report has been collected from multiple sources, including the World Bank, the World Health Organization and the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) among others, as well as World Rugby’s member unions. Its aim is to better understand the Social Return on Investment (SROI) that rugby participation delivers globally and will be used to generate insights and actions to accelerate grassroots delivery and incentivise investment into the game.

You play a big game Nat. Questioning not only the IOC but the World Bank and World Health organisation. I don’t have the time to research all of the 120 Rugby Union’s affiliated with World Rugby but I recommend if you still have any further questions that you direct those to Rys Jones at World Rugby. Humble apologies for being YEALLY bad at this Nat. Perhaps he’s a bit better at articulating or explaining to you what I, World Rugby, the World Health Organisation and the IOC cannot. 😂 . Enjoy the sausage sizzle at Henson Park.

Is that an admission of failure Mr Pickett ? Are you acknowledging that Rugby League is not really an International sport. I think you are correct. Just like American Football, or World Championship wrestling. Rugby League is not so much a sport as a made for TV entertainment for head hunters. What Rugby or AFL doesn’t devour the lawyers surely will. Your concussion protocols are not worth the paper they are written on.

You are obviously in a state of self denial NAT. Maybe you want to check the stats with the IOC. When the world is watching the Olympics in Paris this year they will be watching Rugby. Where will your code be — Brookvale. Maybe you want to check back with Fox Sports in America who reported those wonderful viewer numbers in the States two days ago. How inspiring. At least they are covering in full Rugby’s very own professional league in the US and not just two games. I think your denial of realitiy is pathetic.

Well you would know if you follow the NRL. It has about as much integrity as the euphemistically named Integrity commission that you set up.

Who says I don’t give you anything NAT ? This is an extract from a recent World Rugby report prior to the record breaking World Cup that garnered a record 2.4 million attendees at an average of 50,000 per match . The world cup in point of fact was the most spoken about rugby event ever with 3.1 billion impressions on digital and social media. RWC France 2023 achieved 1.33 billion viewing hours (VH) across all programming on linear and non-linear broadcast making it the most viewed rugby event of all time. France 2023 achieved 30 per cent more viewership than England 2015 and 19 per cent more than Japan 2019 despite a general decline in linear TV viewing globally and despite the fact that Japans One Rugby League is recognising substantial growth of its own and looking to double it’s cumulative attendances within three seasons.

Growing viewership observed of the Rugby World cup was across most markets including rugby’s emerging territories such as Germany and USA. Eight of the 11 markets[1] surveyed saw strong viewership growth since 2015 despite a general decline in linear TV globally and an accrued competition in the entertainment offering. The United Kingdom’s viewership came close to breaking the 2015 record (361m) when England hosted RWC 2015, which is an impressive result considering overall linear TV viewership in the UK was down by 27 per cent over the same period[2].
Growing viewership has also been observed in rugby’s emerging markets like Germany (15.2m VH), Italy (16.1m VH) and USA (11.1m VH) where rugby’s popularity is soaring with a +27, +70 and +136 per cent respectively versus RWC 2015.
Community rugby is thriving too, with 8.46 million participants globally. This number includes 1.5 million active non-registered players, 5 million registered participants, and 1.9 million active registered players. The growth is particularly pronounced among adult male and female active registered players, which surged by 26 per cent and 38 per cent, respectively. The report also highlights an impressive 30 percent increase in the number of rugby clubs worldwide. Emerging rugby nations such as Belgium, Spain, Singapore, Ghana, Nigeria, and Zambia are experiencing substantial growth, underscoring the sport’s expanding reach. World Rugby’s commitment to rugby’s growth is exemplified by its substantial investment of £575 million between 2020 and 2023 in the development of the sport. This financial support extends to unions and regions, facilitating the global expansion of the game and offering a broader range of services to bolster rugby’s presence worldwide. More than 80 per cent of our players come from 20 nations. I could go on but I think you get the point. You should do.

Better TV ratings than AFL. That is a dubious claim that I hear regularly but one I fear that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

8.4 million registered players worldwide. It’s all relative but that doesn’t sound like a niche sport to me. Small fry compared to football of course but we are not drawing that comparison. How does that compare with Rugby League. Come on !! Are you serious. I noticed you avoided mention of the other elephant in the room that is a part of the pincer movement that will eventually squeeze the life of out Rugby League on the east coast of Australia.

No, the word I used was founded in Huddersfield.

It depends on the parameters you choose to look at. If you are comparing the game domestically to Rugby Union then sure, this is true. If you take into account population growth I think you will find that at best Rugby League has stagnated in this country but that is to ignore the elephant in the room. The problem for Rugby League that Rugby League supporters either don’t wish to acknowledge or refuse to recognise is that many of the skills and attributes that make a great Rugby League player are by and large and for better or worse, transferrable to Rugby Union and Rugby Union is booming globally. Rugby League had one day of coverage on Fox Sports. Rugby Union’s professional League in the states, the MLR just inked a deal for coverage over 18 consecutive weeks but that is nothing compared to the money on offer in French Rugby or Japanese Rugby for that matter. Second Division team Brive have a salary cap twice that of the Roosters. If you think Manu, Sailor, Rogers, Suaali’i and other high profile players are the last to defect then, let me tell you, you ain’t seen nothing yet. If that weren’t bad enough any impartial sporting pundit would tell you that Rugby League is loosing market share domestically to AFL on almost all major key indicators. It has a much broader footprint across a much larger demographic than Rugby League has so not only is the game being squeezed internationally it is domestically as well, particularly in the hearts and minds of many younger Australians. That is what I would call being stuck between a rock and a hard place.