What fans ?

You seem unwilling to accept the new paradigm. I watch more Japanese Rugby that I do Super Rugby these days. Why, wouldn’t I. It’s on at a time that suits me. It’s pack full of quality overseas players like Richie Mo’unga that DONT play in SUPER RUGBY anymore and its growing exponentially in both standard and popularity. It’s also expansive and fun to watch. If you are relying on Super Rugby remaining the premier competition in the world then you really need to think again. The world of Rugby is changing rapidly and the best New Zealand can hope for is for its domestic league to be a feeder competition. I hope you enjoy playing with yourselves because if NZR is not prepared to meet us halfway then there will be no Trans Tasman competition to speak of and the drain of All Blacks or ex All Blacks opting to play overseas will become a Tsunami if it hasn’t become one already.

Don’t make the mistake of conflating the two issues, they are not binary and I never suggested they were.

That’s the bit you are just not getting Wig1. We are not opponents. We are all in this together. We are all a part of one big Rugby family. Rich and poor, Young and Old. Australian or New Zealand. “Any man’s death diminishes me, Because I am involved in mankind, And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.”

Napoleon once said that he was not surprised that everyone had their price but how low that price often was. If I was feeding a village in Fiji I know which option I would choose. I’d be taking the money over a National cap any day of the week. We already have better competitions. Competitions that are much more fun and engaging. The Sydney Shute shield club competition is infinitely more appealing. It’s unpredictable, entertaining and expansive perhaps due in part to the more porous defence. Yes, it’s a lower standard but there in lies my point. Australia and New Zealand are never going to compete with the money on offer overseas in the marque competitions. Super Rugby needs to find itself a point of difference that gives it relevance. It needs to re-engage with the broader community. Australians aren’t engaged by loosing each week. Would you be ?

Jacko, the comp doesn’t live in a vacuum. In New Zealand when you turn the Radio on the Rugby news is never far away. When you open a Newspaper the Rugby is on the back page. In Australia you rarely if ever hear Rugby mentioned in the mainstream media so of course any comp must understand and recognise these prevailing circumstances if they wish it to be successful. It is not a level playing field. It’s like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Watching Rugby at 9pm suits NZ TV but watching Super Rugby in Australia at 5pm does not. Most people are still only coming home from their day out but I think the greatest problem for the Tournament is that it is still viewed by the movers and groovers in Australian and New Zealand Rugby as a glorified trial for the national teams and until that attitude changes and it is played for its own sake support for the competition will continue to dwindle away. There is little to no tribalism for what are essentially confected bodies of players that are purportedly said to be representing residents hundreds of km away.

Are you kidding. You talk of self entitlement and being small minded but your arrogance seems to be masking your own narrow mindedness and sense of entitlement. NZR are more than happy to take the boost in revenue that comes from the Australian market but refuse to compromise on measures that would make Super Rugby a more competitive, more entertaining spectacle. A rising tide floats all boats. Your own self interest is so strident that I could be forgiven for thinking that you wanted to eradicate the code from Australian shores altogether. It is already on life support. It wouldn’t be much of a Trans-Tasman competition without Australia would it ?
If the NFL, the IPL and AFL can introduce a draft, all vastly wealthier leagues than Super Rugby then why couldn’t or shouldn’t Super Rugby. They all recognise the need to make their leagues competitive but your bloody minded intransigence will not only leave Australian Rugby high and dry but New Zealand Rugby as well and that would prove to be not only an own goal but sheer stupidity.

Take off the parochial shades. Your cynicism could well be misconstrued for xenophobia and it seems to be getting in the way of your judgement. This isn’t about Australia and or New Zealand, it’s a discussion about the health of Rugby and what is the best path forward for the code in this part of the world. A rising tide floats all boats, not a receding one.

Oh yeah, I’ve heard of him. Wasn’t he the Beatles Manager ? 😂

There you go Jacko. You have said it yourself. Why would you want to play the next round of Super Rugby in a city where Rugby does not live ? You have such a low regard for Rugby in Melbourne and most probably Australia that it begs the question as to why you still want to flog this dead horse that is Super Rugby ? Let me give you the tip.
We are are over it. We are uninspired, we are not enthused, we are bored by Super Rugby. I love my Rugby, but I’d rather get my entertainment fix elsewhere and judging by the crowds and viewership so too would most Australians.

Exactly, I only have Stan for the Six Nations. I will cancel my subscription as soon as it concludes. Super Rugby ain’t too Super.

Who was it that said “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.” I don’t know but I think the NZRU and RA should wake up and take a leaf out of Robbie Williams book because we want to be entertained. The current format or arrangement is NOT working for the silent majority of Australian households.

This is true. Australia’s population demographic and interests have significantly changed. This is reflected in the Wallaby squad but that only tells us part of the story The significant proportion of new migrants to Australia come from parts of the world with little to know interest in what might be considered the traditional Australian sporting past times of Football or Cricket. The younger generation have fundamentally different interests too. When I was growing up Yoga and Tai Chi were relatively fringe activity’s and E Sports didn’t exist. They are in all probability more mainstream than Rugby is now.

Further to Geoff”s comments the AFL also have a draft. The viability of the AFL competition is one of the reasons it is encroaching on what was once Rugby and Rugby League heartland each and every year. Australians don’t care about what is most viable for the All Blacks, they hardly even give a toss about what is most viable for the Wallaby’s these days come to think of it. We just want to be entertained. When the Six Nations finishes I am cancelling my subscription to pay tv. Doesn’t that tell you something ?

Exactly, the competition needs to be rebalanced for the greater good. It’s just not that entertaining unless you are fortunate enough to live in the Canterbury region of New Zealand. Unfortunately, for Rugby most of us don’t.

Totally agree Bliksem. The NZRU and to a lesser extent RA need to ask themselves a fundamental question. Do they want the All Blacks or Wallaby’s to be strong or Rugby to be Strong because if it is the later and they want to sustain community interest beyond a few weeks every year then the NZRU in particular need to make sacrifices for the greater good of the game. Super Rugby is so imbalanced, so unappealing to the casual impartial viewer that it is like a cancer eating away at the heart of the game. Its lack of sustainability will ultimately harm too the viability of the national teams for who’s benefit ironically the competition was initially designed and run. That rot is self evident already in recent Wallaby performances. In the meantime, whilst the administrators obfuscate, procrastinate, vacillate and protect their own self interest the game as a WHOLE in this part of the world continues to haemorrhage support.

That’s exactly the problem with Super Rugby. It’s a kind of glorified trial for All Black selection. The viability of the competition comes a distant second to the viability of the All Blacks and to a lesser, much lesser extent the Wallaby’s. They are damaging the long term sustainability of the game in the process. Sadly I think the window to re-calibrate the tournament has passed and soon it will only ever be considered a feeder system for richer overseas teams. There just isn’t the domestic support to sustain it beyond that level of aspiration any longer. The sooner that the NZRU and RA recognise that their best players are destined to play overseas we can revert back to a sustainable local competition in whatever form that takes that appeals to local tastes and does so without breaking the bank.

The New Zealand Rugby Union needs to work out if it wants to make the All Blacks great again or Rugby great again because clearly there is an imbalance to this competition which is enduring and yet no one is keen to acknowledge it and if they do so, to take measures to remedy it. The New Zealand Rugby Union and RA of course has to ask itself whether they want Rugby to be the strongest domestic product that it can be and sacrifice some of their home grown talent for the greater good of the competition via a draft or let Super Rugby dwindle on the vine as it continues to do. As I stated in a previous post I only hold the Stan subscription currently for the Six Nations. As soon as that concludes, so too will my subscription.

Sean Maloney is the reason I am cancelling my Stan subscription as soon as the six nations is complete. If I want to be spoken to like a child I will go back to school.

What about getting a Television set. You have heard of one of those. Even the most jingoistic and patriotic of American’s and Australians too of course stopped in front of one of those square things to watch man land on the moon. Who would have guessed ? It is a small world after all. 😂

You talk a big game Ed but Rugby League isn’t a big game. There are approximately 160,000 registered Rugby League players in Australia. The figures are a bit rubbery, what else would you expect, a bit like the concept of a League INTEGRITY committee or the much vaunted Las Vegas experiment. Rugby Union has by comparison approximately 85,000 Registered players in Australia. A difference I grant you but hardly significant if compared to the 804,000 registered Rugby players domiciled in South Africa. In the mean time I await with great anticipation for you to furnish me with the names of those private school boys currently rostered in the Wallaby squad. I look forward to sharing it with the GPS boys at the 1988 reunion. At least you got that bit right. ???? 😂
I don’t know at what point I singled out “Australian Rugby” for special attention Ed but I guess that is more a commentary on your own xenophobic focus than it is my more cosmopolitan and international one. Cheers. 😂

Fair enough. I agree with you. I take your point. I would like Rugby’s rule book modified too. As long as you enjoy your sport. That’s the main thing. Thanks for your balanced and fair response. You don’t always get that on the roar.

Rocky, When you take into consideration population growth the crowds and TV ratings have not grown significantly. It is still a game propped up by Government assistance and the popular support of local media. I try to tune out of local media at State of Origin time for fear of being bashed over the head by free promotions and adverts for the game. All of that largesse can disappear in a twinkling of an eye. Should future TV deals not sustain current Salary caps which at the Roosters, who are supposed to be one of the wealthier NRL clubs are currently running at half that of a French second division Rugby Union team then what do you think the players will do. Of course, they will migrate to where the money is just as they do in the A League and look how well that is going for them. Should and I submit when this happens local support for the game will dissipate in the media, in government and significantly in the community. Everyone likes a winner Rocky. League’s day of reckoning is approaching.

I think a lot of what you have said is spot on but how many Wallaby’s are actually from private schools. Yes, it was a significant nursery for Rugby but it is in truth so outdated a notion as to be more myth than reality. Participation figures are fairly rubbery but Rugby has approx 85,000 registered players of which 53,000 are at school boy level. League 160,000. That’s a significant difference but as nothing compared to the fact that South Africa has 804,000 rugby players so I think it is careful to remember not to overstate this argument. Yes, Rugby domestically is being squeezed more than League is by AFL and Soccer but sport does not live in a vacuum and external forces can be just as impactful, just ask the A League who are destined to always loose their most talented to the more lucrative markets overseas. Internationally Rugby is booming and I can see the day when League too will suffer as the A League does now from talent drain. I would respectfully argue that it is Rugby League that will ultimately find itself in a bear hug and squeezed to death by AFL, by soccer and ultimately by Rugby Union.

Yes, I saw the Reds and Waratahs. Wally Lewis was interviewed before the match actually. Seems as though he still keeps a keen eye on the game.
Sorry you missed the 70 thousand that attended the Scotland England encounter or the 55,000 in Dublin last night. Maybe, you can stay up tonight to see 50,000 Frenchman pack out the stadium to watch their team against Italy in Lille. I assume, you’ve heard of Lille. Anyway, if that’s too late for you why don’t you watch a bit of the Japanese Rugby One division. The quality is pretty good and getting better all the time and it’s in our time zone. Your argument regarding Lewis is a semantic one and frankly doesn’t make any sense. Are you denying that League Clubs didn’t poach players in the 1980’s ? The NRL do close to nothing to develop the community game. NRL is not a sport so much as a made for TV entertainment but if you will indulge me for a moment, in truth I think you lost the war when Vichy France promoted Rugby Union over Rugby League way back in the 1940’s. Rugby League had almost a hundred years to develop but squandered the opportunity and the money. Their footprint is little bigger now than it was when I grew up. The Vichy government favoured as they saw it the amateur community game over the mercantile one. Altruistically even Mussolini endorsed Rugby Union as a means of building unity within the community which was in itself a significant stepping stone to the development of the game in that country and why the Italians had 65,000 at the Rome Olympic stadium to watch a game of Rugby two weeks ago. I know that I am drawing a long bow and you will talk of ancient history but in truth it is the future that should be your biggest concern. Don’t buy into all the parochial hype, sport doesn’t begin and end when James Bracey at Channel Nine tells you it does.