I thought the Boks went away from what worked in the 1st half and started playing a more conservative and territorial game whereas in the 1st half they played with much more freedom and flair. They still don’t look as fit as the All Blacks either. I also think that this time Meyer’s substitutions worked against him, Strauss kept on missing his jumpers when he came on.

Having said that, I am so happy with the win, but what a great team these All Blacks are. Respect.

Definitely, nothing like a win. What’s even better is that they won by playing the type of rugby (in the first half) that I want them to play, nobody can complain that the style is conservative or boring.

Sure, there were too many times that I saw forwards barreling into the opposition and the Wallabies were there defending while the Bok runner was all alone. Also, I don’t see our runners, especially the forwards, looking around them for support, they just storm forward with their eyes fixed on the opposing player/s and the ball clutched under the arm, no awareness of anything else.

Totally agree about the offload comment, I said the same thing earlier in this thread. Let’s hope Meyer can coach that into them, it will make all the difference and I believe that despite them stringing more than 20 phases together at certain times, it was their inability to do the unexpected such as offloading in tackles etc. that made it easier to defend against them.

Boks started really well and showed a lot more attacking intent, but they still lack the offloading game of the All Blacks, they keep going to ground and then take time to recycle the ball. At least they didn’t kick and really tried to run, if they keep at it eventually they should get better.

Some people called the game boring, I don’t agree at all as there was a lot of rugby played. Much more than in the previous matches when everybody complained about all the kicking, you just can’t please some people.

Armand, I don’t know which is harder, never having seen the Boks beat the All Blacks or having seen it on many occasions many years ago and now having to come away frustrated and disappointed match after match. When I started watching rugby in the early 70’s we always expected a positive outcome and losses were never a given before a match even started. I have some theories, one of them has to do with politics and I have to word this carefully.

Let me start by saying that by no means do I condone apartheid, I am only stating facts and then opinions based on these facts. In NZ rugby is part of the culture, it is a culture, it is a common element shared by all New Zealanders and ex players remain integrated in the culture and the systems in some or other way. Selection is never a political issue. The love of the black jersey and the silver fern is shared by all.

In South Africa, although unfairly so, rugby was like that for a part of the population in the apartheid years. Then isolation came and we did not compete internationally, resulting in a lot of provincialism creeping into the game. I remember how we used to boo Naas Botha at Newlands, Western Province supporters hated Northern Transvaal, the Currie Cup became our test rugby. When apartheid ended and we were allowed back into international rugby, things were no longer the way they used to be. A big part of the population did not support the Boks, but rather the All Blacks for political reasons. Ex players simply left the game, they were no longer being welcomed with open arms into rugby management and coaching jobs. Pressure started to select players on grounds other than skills and ability. South Africa doesn’t have one culture or one race and the integration was and still is a slow and painful process. Black players maybe don’t have the absolute reverence for the jersey and the Springbok emblem. The administrators are not always those who put the love of rugby first.

I can carry on, but suffice to say that I think the end product is one that needs a whole lot of the right ingredients and a good recipe and in All Black land that is how it is, in SA we are not there at the moment and I don’t know if we will ever get there. The environment in which rugby is played is not the same anymore. We have to take some of the good from the old days and integrate it into a new environment in which rugby is managed on a political basis.

Somewhere along the line we also lost the plot with playing style. I don’t buy into this story that Bok rugby is one dimensional because that is our culture and that is how we have always been. I watched Danie Gerber, Ray Mordt, Carel du Plessis and other great backs playing, they were fantastic runners with the ball.

We wtill have good backs, sometimes in the Junior world cup these youngsters are so impressive, but as soon as they end up in the Bok setup they lose their flair. Serfontein was a great runner, now he is just another crash ball runner.

Anyway, I will stop there, I don’t know if I made any sense, but I wanted to get a few of these issues off my chest. I sincerely hope that we will get to be great again, and I have no problem if it is with a Bok team with Sithole, Senatla, Mapoe, Kolbe, and many more black players, as long as the whole country and SARU are 100% pulling in the same direction for the good of the game and nobody feels left out.

Wow, Argentina is impressing me here. They will worry quite a few teams.

Very poor handling on several occasions by the Boks, knock-ons during promising moves, who knows what might have been. Anyway, at least they were not humiliated, but how sad is it that teams have to be satisified with not being humiliated when playing the All Blacks? Winning doesn’t seem to be an option anymore, the goal is to limit the margin of the loss.

Any idea what the penalty count is against the Boks now?

How the h..ll can you play rugby if you are not allowed to challenge for the ball?

Some positive signs from the Boks, but too many handling errors are spoling their attacking moves. Let’s hope they show even more attacking intent in the 2nd half.

After the first match against Argentina I just decided to write the match off and not analyze it too much as the conditions were atrocious. Then came the second match and it was even worse, I couldn’t believe what was happening. The risk of course is to overreact now and to be honest, after such a poor display if I was in Meyer’s shoes I wouldn’t even know where to start. The only players that I felt were quite good on the day were Vermeulen, Habana and Le Roux amongst the starters and then Coetzee and Strauss amongst the replacements. I honestly didn’t think that Pienaar was that bad and Pollard didn’t disappoint either.

Then the props, yes they backpedalled all the time, but props alone do not make a strong scrum. Why did the scrum not function as a unit?

You are right about one thing, combinations take time to gel and Meyer has to start getting some stability in the crucial areas. The problem is that he doesn’t have any matches left in which to experiment, they are all pressure matches from now on, unless he decides to forget about winning for now and just try and give some players extened runs.

Getting back to the weekend, I hope Meyer has some ideas, because frankly after that match in which basically the whole team was way below par, it is difficult to decide who should be blamed. At the same time, look at the All Black turnaround in one week with basically the same team, they credit their shrink with the change that happened basically overnight, maybe that’s where the Boks should start as well.

Wow, I have no words to describe what I just saw. Our forwards were just not in the game, there was no platform, no dominance, no structure, no creativity, no ideas, it was painful to watch.

Marcell made a difference, Juan was quiet but so were the other forwards. Difficult to say anything about the backline, at least Cornal looked dangerous and looked for work, the centres were anonymous for most of the game.

Just so disappointing really, but hats off to Argentina who really took it to the Boks.

Yes nick.., I also read the article on Rugbyrama where Sarzewski said a few things about saffa players and the what they offer in general. They did however focus a lot on the big boot issue, making me think that they see Goosen as a kicking player, which is a pity as I initially thought Goosen was much more than that. I am hoping that Goosen in his time in France will show his variety of skills and not just be a kicking flyhalf. I also saw that they will be using him in other backline roles and not just at 10.

As for rugby in the old days, two names stood out for me in some of the French tests that I watched (or listened to on the radio), Robert Paparemborde (just because in Afrikaans it is something close to porridge on a plate) and Jean-Pierre Rives, I will never forget the image of his long blonde hair red with blood, can’t remember which test it was though.

I grew up at a time when the Springboks were still leading the All Blacks in terms of statistics. I remember getting up in the early morning hours to watch games in New Zealand, the notorious flour bomb tour being one of them. When I was a young boy I thought the Springboks were invincible, not the All Blacks. We even used to play rugby games with an “Invincible” ball. Then we were kicked out of international rugby and eventually when we were allowed back into international rugby again, the Springboks were no longer the force that they had been previously.

To this day I have difficulty accepting that the All Blacks are admired and put on a pedestal by the whole world and not the Springboks. Now the Springboks are labelled as one dimensional, playing a forward orientated game, Jakeball, not having a potent backline or attacking flair and it hurts. I remember Carel du Plessis, Michael du Plessis, John Villet, Gerrie Germishuys, Ray Mordt, Danie Gerber and many others. Nobody will ever convince me that attacking flair is not in the South African psyche because that is what I grew up with, not the crash and bash stuff that we see nowadays. I can’t remember Danie Gerber or Carel du Plessis ever taking a ball into contact, they always sidestepped or passed the ball to a team mate in a better position.

My dream is that one day the world will talk about the Boks again in the way that they talk about the All Blacks now. I once lived that dream and I will keep on hoping that we can see true Springbok rugby again one day, at least what I believe to be true Springbok rugby.

Very sensible way of looking at it Pieter. I was disappointed while watching the match, but the conditions were simply the worst that I have seen on a rugby field in a very long time. Handling the ball was almost impossible. Having said that, the mindless and constant kicking still frustrated me and I feel that they could have tried something else, like keeping the ball in the forwards etc.

Ths scrum was a big issue, from what I could see Jannie was the big culprit, he constantly scrummed at an angle.

In the end though I decided that the match was a once-off disaster as a result of the atrocious weather and that there’s not much point in discussing it too much or debating tactics.