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Joined June 2018
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Yes, Leota has been passive in all aspects. One surprise from his last run on match was that he led the tackle count, but I couldn’t think of an example of the dominant, bone jarring types of tackle you expect from a big six. I wonder why
Rennie rewards Wallabies with four-year selection first, just ONE change in 23, 'livid' coaches want 'ruthless' response
What a novel idea. Pick and stick to build cohesion and confidence. This team looks good
Rennie rewards Wallabies with four-year selection first, just ONE change in 23, 'livid' coaches want 'ruthless' response
It is an Australian thing, down to club level. We like an attractive, running game. We generally have good weather and firm grounds. Our players are taught to run and move the ball from an early age. A forward-centric, direct game is not usually the way to go. Wallabies teams, therefore, tend not to tighten things up as required. Their response to going ahead on the scoreboard is to try and play at greater speed, but lose focus on earning the right to play with width. The inconsistency from match to match, even within a match, is that they are vulnerable to teams tightening up and playing directly at us in attack and defence. It’s not that the Wallabies are soft, it’s just that they are geared to speed and width.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Not at all Brett. Just looking for some support from someone, who might have some influence on changing it. RA have not even acknowledged with an automated response. That dive, for reasons I cannot fully explain, has actually upset me. Rugby has always meant more to me than just a game. It is family and community. It is values of respect, fair play determination and ruggedness. These things mean more than just winning. White trashed those ideal in an instant and now that the door is opened it will only get worse.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Likewise you are free to enjoy rugby where diving when the red doesn’t make the decision a player wants becomes the norm. We’ll all look back with misty eyes at the good old days when play was open and it only took three minutes to pack a scrum
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I do agree. Too much time looking at tackles that go wrong in the blink of an eye, where there was no malicious intent, and still too much off the ball niggle (although this has reduced so much in the last decade).
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
This then takes us to examples like Hill/Swain. People upset that Swain got carded but Hill was not punished. I agree it was wrong. Both deserved punishment. Is there not room to consider both Faf and Nic did the wrong thing and deserved punishment?
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
That isn’t the view I take at all. I’m certainly no believer in totalitarian rule. I do take the view that money corrupts morality however. I acknowledge that I have over-reached with my extreme examples of where things can go (as an aside, I had my murdered referees confused. Try Carlos Ortega if you want the drug cartel example). Simply put, I am dismayed that so few seem to have a problem with an Australian player diving (the South African response to it is instructive). I was brought up on fair play and accepting the referee’s decision and always playing to the whistle. I still think these things are important and that the way the game is played is just as important as the result. But to you and everyone else who thinks it is a non issue, report back when diving becomes commonplace in rugby and we stop every minute when a player flops to the ground because his head got hit in a ruck, or he got tackled too hard or he thought there was a knock on. Let me know whether you enjoy watching that brand of rugby, where players “take control” from the refs.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
According to the logic of those who say players like White take matters into their own hands if the ref doesn’t make the decision they want, there is a clear contravention of rugby law 6 5a. The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match. The referee must apply the laws of the game fairly in every match. Not Nic White or any other player
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Yes, we would. Dad’s play was cynical and should be removed from the game. But that is for the refs to sort out, not White
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Not really the point. The point is the application of the laws in a game resides solely with the referee. What anybody else thinks about it is immaterial? Play to the ref’s whistle. It’s that simple.
But in direct response to your question, I would not have been surprised if the referee/TMO had looked at the incident, especially if SA had gone on to score (if White hadn’t dived). Similarly, I would not have been surprised if it was overlooked. We all know many things get missed in a game that should be penalised, and other things get pulled up that probably shouldn’t (TMO having a look at Lolesio tap back EVEN after the ref clearly called play on). Rugby refereeing will never be perfect. But allowing players to dive and “take matters into their own hands” will certainly not improve that. But now I think I’m done on the topic as my passion for this issue is making me seem like a troll
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Why is “drug cartels…” an over-reaction? Because rugby is too nice for that sort of stuff? Others have pointed out to me that the professional game is different to the amateur game because money is involved. Well, when money is involved and there are no moral checks and balances (like always respecting the referee’s decision no matter what), you can be on a slippery slope to corruption and violence. Sure, my example is extreme but it is not unrealistic as it has already happened, even in amateur sport. Look up Otávio Jordão da Silva
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
“He shouldn’t have to”. Indeed, as a player he must not. The refs decision or non-decision must be final. Otherwise why have a referee? Just let both teams squabble and make up their own rules and interpretation. Watch children play to see how that works out
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I’m actually talking about my disappointment with diving permeating rugby, which used to roundly condemn the practice. The Hill issue was a red herring included in the discussion by someone who says the refs miss things (which of course they do) and therefore the players need to take it into their own hands, which is what I’m against. The refs decision or non decision must be final. Refs ref, players play
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Tyson isn’t the first to say that. Also, his plan or instinctive response wasn’t to hit the canvas when he was hit.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I forgot that one. Yes, it was disappointing that was overlooked and not censured
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I think you’ll find there was outcry in defence of Swain, but it got swamped by the “must protect the head, regardless of the force” point of view. Frankly, I think there is a lot wrong with the way games are adjudicated. Hill should have been carded for what was grubby, foul, deliberate play. Swain was right to be carded for the headbutt (two wrongs don’t make a right). But that has nothing to do with the issue of players diving to force a decision from the ref
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I don’t have a problem with the decision made by the ref. I accept that the definition of foul play has changed and applaud efforts to protect the head. My problem is with the dive. It demonstrates a lack of respect for the referee as the sole decision maker regarding application of the laws. More broadly, it is symptomatic of society’s individualism, that suggests it’s okay to flop to the ground complaining when you don’t get the decision you like, instead of keeping on trying.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
It was not many minutes earlier. The hair pulling was immediately before Swain’s headbutt.
I get a sense many out there don’t like TMO interference, pedantic refereeing, but also expect perfection in every decision, and now are okay that players will take it into their own hands to ensure they get the decision they want. Referees therefore are stripped of any authority. They are boxed in by rules and decision making protocols that suggest a swipe to the face is head contact akin to a full force head high tackle. And you now want them to submit to checking something just because a player thinks a penalty has occurred (players tend not to be objective and impartial) and flop to the ground. If that’s the way you guys want rugby to be, good luck. We’ll just see more stoppages in play as TMO, Assistants, players all put their two bobs worth in. Why not let coaching staff and spectators chime in? I paid for my ticket, so I’m a “stakeholder” and therefore demand that I have a say in how the game is refereed. For the final thought experiment, how would you feel about this if Faf de Klerk had taken a dive? Be honest
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Point it out, sure. At the next break in play, through the captain. Not dive to the ground and give up playing.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
The Hill incident was overlooked because of “worse” foul play with the headbutt. This opens another discussion about the ridiculousness of the person responding to foul play being penalised more harshly than the instigator. We will never know whether the Hill incident would have been picked up by the TMO because Swain’s response (incorrectly in my view) became the only issue. But fundamentally, I have a problem with players “forcing the hand of the TMO”, as you put it. The referees, not the players, are in control of the match and have sole responsibility for applying the laws of the game.
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
I haven’t failed to. I simply draw no distinction between the two. Regardless of the circumstances, when a player dives they are halting play and forcing referees to adjudicate. Only referees halt play (with the exception of the Mayday call for a real injury). I still believe in what I was taught as a kid: the referee’s decision is final and you play to the whistle. And it is a furphy to suggest foul play is missed in professional games these days. Indeed, TMO and assistant refs are very quick to pull up actual or perceived fair play. They don’t need the likes of Nic White pointing it out to them. He should concentrate on playing
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Spot on HG. Irrespective of what de Klerk did, White’s dive was reprehensible and should have no place in rugby at any level. On another article I’ve been in debate on this issue, with people stating, essentially, that all bets are off in the professional game and that diving to milk a penalty is okay. I call BS. Professionalism doesn’t mean you don’t play to the whistle and respect the refs decision, or indeed non-whistle. I’m disappointed no Australian rugby journalist has taken a definitive view and castigated White’s dive. Brett, statements like “whatever you think of White’s actions” are insufficient. We need to be clear and stamp this nonsense out now, lest we see more diving, leading to players yelling at and pushing the ref, to drug cartels shooting refs in the carpark because they didn’t accept the fix. Seem far fetched? Look at soccer
Amazing in Adelaide, now Wallabies must be spectacular in Sydney
Perhaps NZ should forget about Robertson and try to secure Super Coach Cheika! Wouldn’t that be fun? 😂
'No identity': What are the All Blacks trying to do?
Agree with Brett’s assessment of the Wallabies chances. There’s a lot of opportunity for improvement, but history and the state of the Boks selections would suggest that the game in Sydney should be won. The tests against the AB always are concerning. But if not this year, with the struggles the AB have had this season, when will the Wallabies wrest the Bledisloe back?
The Thursday Two-up: Time for a rethink?