HG, I think the issue about beating up on the national team is a bit of a national trait to be honest but I have a feeling that nearly every other fan from another nation would probably say the same thing.

It does feel often to me however that the press seems to revel in building them up to knock them down and you always get the impression that when England take the pitch that there is a fear factor for the players that they simply don’t have playing for their clubs.

England players rarely to me look like they’re actually enjoying themselves versus the demeanours they exhibit for their clubs.

Cheers for reading the piece.

Cheers Nick, much much appreciated!

I honestly don’t know why it’s such an issue for British players. Possibly the language barrier is one that us Brits just don’t want to tackle.

Beckham did ok at Real but again I don’t know if he bothered to learn the language. McManaman did fine too but they’re more an exception than a rule, admittedly Michael Owen had a season there too.

I also thinking joining Real or Barca is different from necessarily moving abroad as you’re really focused on joining that massive institution rather than possibly thinking about the country you are moving to.

The Bale transfer was interesting, again he was absolutely adamant that he wanted to go to Real. I thought he was possibly biting off more than he could chew but I think he’s made a decent fist of it so far.

I think as you say now, European teams would probably be very reluctant to sign British players and I’ll be fascinated to see how both Ashley Cole and Micah Richards do in Italy. I remember Paul Parker and Des Walker going there after Italia ’90 and it wasn’t exactly a success.

Italy used to be dreadful also for their players not moving abroad, there’s an Italian term but I think it basically translated as ‘dying’ if you moved abroad. Guys like Vieri and Zola obviously changed that mind set and the likes of Zambrotta also went abroad admittedly after Juve were relegated.

From a selfish point of view I’d like to see the best players playing in England but I think a bit of to and fro would be nice. For that reason I hope Cole and Richards both work out.

Yup Justin, I think most are in agreement the responsibility lies with the FA and better youth coaching.

Tom I think there’s definitely a ‘too much too young’ syndrome which seems to be particularly affecting young English players.

I think the marketing of the EPL and the status (and obviously money) that it brings makes players believe they’ve ‘arrived’ when actually they’ve only just started.

You look at the behaviour of Rooney when he was younger, Jack Wilshire with the cigarettes and then mirror against that against say Cristiano Ronaldo. He might not be everyone’s cup of tea but no one can ever question the professionalism he exhibits.

The England team all looked out on their feet at the World Cup (yes I know about the weather blah blah) but the German team played just as many games on average am sure last year (many in the latter stages of the CL) and they all looked fresh.

I know Zidane enjoyed the odd puff but generally many of the continental players appear at least to offer far more dedication to looking after themselves. Maybe just my perception though and probably a different discussion.

HP, those are some good points about the impacts it can have on your career outside of International football.

John Barnes for instance was a supremely talented player (and a professional nice bloke it seems), one of England’s most gifted ever yet was regularly booed for England in the early 90s. The England team was going through a malaise under Graham Taylor and they needed scapegoats.

Alan Shearer used to be routinely booed also all around the grounds and I think that died down once he retired from International football – although I may be wrong.

Lampard is another who outside of Hammers’ fans seems a fairly amiable guy yet again he was often booed for England.

Absolutely Melbourne, as everyone is agreeing with here, the youth coaching is the real crux.

Like I said, it would have to be something entirely unofficial so no regulating body could reference it which of course means it’s entirely unenforceable as it would fall apart over night.

The way the Euros is going is a bit shameless really. Platini levels all sorts regarding the money in the game and we are diluting what is a great product purely for that basis and to compensate for less of it’s important (financially) teams making the World Cup consistently.

An example is England missing out in ’08, it costs the tournament a fortune when they don’t show up and am sure they love the likes of the Irish, the Scots and the Danes there also, (basically anyone who likes a tipple and turns up in big numbers…..)

Many people commented on how good the Confederations Cup was last year. A short sharp tournament full of high quality football. Here’s Europe going the other way.

Tom sorry and pardon me if I’m being thick, not sure I entirely understand the point you are making mate?

There have certainly been plenty of accusations levelled at England players that they don’t care about their country. Harry Redknapp went as far as (without naming them) claiming that players had asked him to pull them out of International weeks etc.

I would add all these claims are always vociferously denied by the players although I did find Wayne Rooney’s claims they were bored at the ’10 World Cup somewhat pathetic. Most of us would kill to be that bored representing our countries………

HP, good points you make (as usual mate).

I think the reasons for that are simply more human beings being portable and living and working all around the world (myself living in Singapore being a prime example) and as we’ve mentioned the money available in England now attracting more foreign players.

Used to be the some of best British players would try their luck abroad. Liam Brady (Eire granted), Ian Rush, Mark Hughes, Ray Wilkins, Mark Hately, Glenn Hoddle etc all the European ban was a factor for many.

I can’t really comment on Ireland or Wales but in Scotland, what I think happened in terms of so many foreign players was during the ’90s, Rangers had their 9 in a row team where David Murray felt that he could make Rangers too big for the Premiership to ignore and they would finally move South (ho hum!).

He signed the likes of Brian Laudrup, Gascoigne and then any number of Dutch players under Dick Advocaat chasing the dream. Celtic followed suit (although didn’t bankrupt themselves) and many other smaller clubs turned to the same policy.

None of them however were getting value for money and had the proper scouting. Whilst the coaching situation in Scotland is little better I think that almost killed a generation of players off as there was simply nowhere to go given their lack of foreign horizons.

I think the other reason the home nations have gone backwards is the Berlin Wall came down. Those nations have all broken into smaller teams most of which are highly capable. At the same time FIFA has given more slots (quite rightly) to Africa and Asia meaning the European teams scrapping over less.

Those Eastern European players are often highly technically proficient and it’s no surprise they come looking for the money in the big leagues, again pushing Scottish, Irish players etc to one side.

What I WOULD love to know, is how the heck can these nations that Western Europe would look down its’ nose at economically consistently produce better players than us when we’ve identified the problem as coaching infrastructure. Maybe there is a social element to it also………..

Chris, it’s clearly a way to alleviate the problem but the issue is EU law. There is simply no way to do anything to stop the free movement of people from EU member states for the basis of employment.

The UK has some of the most strict criteria for NON EU players and it can be very hard to get a work permit for that reason. I think Marcos Rojo has been struggling for some reason although there was some talk of 3rd party ownership muddling things. Many South Americans players come to say Spain, Portugal or Italy and then then qualify for EU passports later through residency.

The clubs could of course unofficially vote for an unofficial quota but right now with the dearth of British talent and the fees they attract (Adam Lallana versus Cesc Fabregas for instance) then it’s a little like turkeys voting for Christmas………..

Ben again, like the other guys who have commented I completely agree with you.

The Ross McCormack transfer this Summer is a prime example. Fulham paid 12M for a player this Summer who at 28 years old only has 11 caps for a very poor Scotland side. Presumably there are stellar wages to go with that fee. It is insane and is exactly the reason why players can’t be bothered to go abroad.

The Ryan Gauld transfer was a real breath of fresh air to me. I’m dropping in a link to a piece which has some comments as to his reasoning for going. Wish there more like him………………

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jul/02/ryan-gauld-sporting-lisbon-60m-buy-out-clause

Cheers Futbanous. I would agree with everything you say there.

What prompted this was listening to the BBC overnight podcast on Tues/Wed. They had a couple of journalists in there and one of them said that the likes of Mourinho and Wenger had a MORAL obligation to basically serve the purposes of the England team. Just wound me up no end.

It’s possibly even a wider social issue in the UK although I find it hard to believe it can be that much different from other European countries, the problem is in the coaching lower down the age groups.

It was interesting to hear a Brazilian journalist say similar things about their country post World Cup and also the organisation of football as a whole.

The point he made was that Brazil has 200M or so people and all a huge amount of them do in their spare time in their youth is play football so of course they are going to produce many many good players regardless.

But is point was that results such as the 7-1 hammering are the result of the complacency and mismanagement that that breeds.

Tell you what though, I’d love to be as bad as Brazil…………….!

Cheers AZ. I know that the UK suffers in comparison because there are so many other sports competing for young people’s times but I just don’t think it’s that hard, it’s the coaching at youth level. Thanks for reading the piece.

Cheers FU. There are just so many statistics about the number of top class qualified youth coaches in Germany and Spain versus what there are in the UK. Then you look at the relative merits of the national teams right now and it’s hardly rocket science.

Not necessarily ‘iconic’ but certainly notorious. I was sat directly opposite in the stand at Selhurst Park in 1995 when Eric Cantona launched his ‘kung fu’ attack on a less than innocent Crystal Palace fan.

Will always remember being there and rushing home on the bus to see the highlights show!

JB, all good points and cheers for the read.

Trying to address the points in order. I think Chelsea selling Mata was due to a confluence of factors. Mourinho had signalled from the start of the season that Mata was not his first choice ’10’. That place went to Oscar. The story being that Mata lacked the physical prowess to do the tracking back and pressing that Mourinho craves and demands.

I think Chelsea are very aware of FFP and see it as very real (just ask City or PSG). The reality is Chelsea get 40,000 odd thousand a week and their match day revenues are way below that of say Arsenal. Couple that with guys like Torres on 175K a week and there is a need for pragmatism. A few years back I don’t think there’s any chance Abramovich would have sold Mata to United.

And yes, I think adding those two up, the money was simply too good to refuse.

The more I think about it, the more I think everyone is questioning the Di Maria signing whereas the real issue was the signing of Mata who did not fit into Moyes’ system and looks the odd man out again here.

I think the three at the back system is a bit of a funny one and like you say with the personnel they have. If you had Ferdinand, Vidic and say Neville (he’d have been mint on the right hand side of a back three) in their primes then absolutely, it could have worked but none of these guys have convinced and there is no guarantee that Rojo will fit in. I completely agree with you.

For me, a back four will offer Van Gaal a better and more flexible platform to fit in the attack minded players.

Thanks Harry.

I think both signings, Mata and Di Maria look a little bit reactionary to me. Both fine players for sure but Moyes signed Mata and used him out of position on the left where he was very ineffective. It just felt like United felt they had to sign someone and a big name if possible.

Likewise Di Maria doesn’t seem to naturally fit into Van Gaal’s stated formation unless you play with two wide players which marginalises Mata and possibly Rooney.

Mata of course was not Van Gaal’s signing but I would have thought signing a player to compliment him (such as Fabregas who could have linked up well with him) would have made more sense.

The system he has used in the league to date puts an emphasis on more naturally central players with only the wingbacks offering true width. Hence a Fabregas or a Sami Khedira to strengthen those central areas would have been excellent, but who’s to say United are finished in the transfer market this window.

I’m sure this weekend will give us some clues as to what LVG’s plan is…………

Thanks Zee.

It’s an amazing stat with Spurs and Arsenal. Since 1995 the only team that Spurs haven’t finished above in the Premiership……. Arsenal.

QPR were awful on Sunday but I still think Spurs looked very good, far better balanced than I’ve seen them in age and plenty of energy. I do worry a bit about the centre backs too but they’ve got a good goalkeeper and a good size squad. Could be an interesting season for them.

Motherwell, St Johnstone and Aberdeen have been representing us Ben, but no one can past the qualifiers!!!

It’s so tough now to even get into the first round proper. Aberdeen had to play FC Groningen from Holland (they did supremely well to beat them) and then were knocked out by Real Sociedad.

I think the best us Scots can hope for in the short term is a more competitive league which in turn will (hopefully) lead to a better product.

The Old Firm are both a curse and a boon to the league in that their size and dominance has made the league a 2 team procession since the early 90s. Unfortunately Scottish football became dependant on the revenue they created at the same time.

Rangers’ financial implosion has had knock on effects – I can’t believe it’s a coincidence that both Edinburgh teams are in the 2nd tier also – and the current top division is dire in terms of quality.

However, there are positive effects such as the re-emergence of Aberdeen and an improved Dundee United showing. Those two formed the ‘New Firm’ of the 80s that made the Scottish product such a fine one at the point. I grew up in Aberdeen during the Ferguson era and there was a genuine European force on show there.

The game has moved on and the saturation TV coverage of the big European leagues has killed many of the more ‘provincial’ leagues. The likes of Caley however prove a tonic and there is a decent size regional fan base for them to appeal to.

Motherwell under Stuart McCall have performed minor miracles domestically and St Johnstone obviously won the Scottish Cup last season.

Celtic whether as a direct consequence of no Rangers or other reasons are going hugely backwards in terms of the quality of their team and size of their attendances.

A more competitive domestic product (not necessarily of a higher quality) will hopefully be the result. That in turn could hopefully lead to better (non Old Firm) attendances around the country. From there you can build the quality presumably through a focus on youth development.

If the Edinburgh clubs could then sort themselves out we have a far more interesting landscape again. Maybe Rangers not coming up this season would be a blessing in terms of compressing the league and leaving Celtic without their prime motivation again.

Well they don’t have to be English, just trained in the UK for 3 years between 16/17 and 21. Club home grown means they have to have spent 3 of those years at Chelsea. Looking at our squad I’d reckon (and am guessing here………)

JT, Schwarzer (why he was signed I think), Cahill, Fabregas, Moses, McEachran. That’s all I can figure out and of those, only McEachran and JT would class as ‘club’ home grown.

So I’m guessing you’d have to pad out your squad with U21 players to meet the quota. I need to talk to someone who plays Championship Manager!

Melbourne would have sat much better with me also Rodger!

Bondy spot on, that’s been reported widely in the English press as an additional reason. Would have thought that would have made sense to Chelsea too!

I think SWP might have even been 24M Freddie, that was at the absolute height of Chelsea’s silly season under Abramovich.

There was also quite a bit of bad feeling when Sturridge moved to Chelsea and the row over compensation.

The one transfer I would paid to see would have been JT to City which was mooted a few years back in his prime for 45M I think it was being bandied about.

Reason being……. that was before the news about him and Bridge’s ex missus broke. Would have loved to have seen the City dressing room with the two of them together when the story broke.

No doubt JT was the one in the wrong but Bridge would have been the one that had to make way….. same happened with the England squad.

Woodo, I think Hammers fans have suffered enough over the past few years for you to guys to deserve the odd dig here and there, would not begrudge you that at all!

On a serious note, I’ve never completely understood exactly why Lampard is just SO unpopular at Upton Park. He doesn’t seem a bad lad to me and Joe Cole was welcomed seemingly easily enough.

Was there something sour in the way that he left the club or just one of those things, fans didn’t like him and that was that?