Funny article

Tbf this will probably stimulate the debate the game needs to have, FFA are stuck in 2005, at the time of the change in FFA Chairman + two board members, about where the game is at and where it needs to be going

But the FFA have quietly just gone about wanting to say in a past mindset, but we need to go from 2005 to 2015

As an MV fans, we’ve gone through this sort of thing as recently as 2013, but once the changes have been maded in the fan scene and the clubs mindset the whole thing rebounded quite robsutly

There’s a floor on how far this can fall, ironically it is because of the admin of the big teams, eg MV and WS membership renewal was very robust, and reflects that the teams and so the HAL are well anchored in Melbour.ne and Sydney

They aren’t addressing the issues at their core, the Press Conference was a huge deflection and attempt to take heat out of the issue

Well actually there is cutting your nose off to spite your face and then there’s the fact that the game needs an introspection

This has been building for a while, ultimately the FFA need to move out of 2005, because it is their head in the sand mindset that is preventing the game from moving forward

Not just about an appeals process, it is about fundamentally changing their security mindset, and delves into things like having the A-League run autonomously of the FFA

Nice article

Think the NT statement addressed the issues

* Basically a proper system with due Process – the lack of one reveals something about a lack of respect over the years despite lip service to the contrary, which is probably why people are still cynical
* Replacing Hatamoto – as I said go from condescending counter terrorism outlook to community policing outlook
* A more sophisticated Low Profile Policing over clumsy High Profile policing – a bit out of the FFA’s jurisdiction but having Hatamoto is in-step with HP, they need to encourage LP where possible
* A fundamental change in attitude by the FFA – where they stop looking at fans as the problem and stop with the knee-jerk reactions over the years to negative publicity and start proactively defending the sport more. The whole week gives off a strong impression they have been dragged kicking and screaming into denouncing Wilson with extreme reluctance

If they don’t they’ll simply undermine the HAL overtime, people have been irritated by the overbearing policing and security for a while but now they’ve lost a lot of trust of people given no one feels the FFA has footballs back and it will take a while for this to change

And where there are issues around the FFA’s stakeholders in general as raised by the Lucy Zelic article, I would say it’s now time the football fraternity as a whole began to discuss further autonomy for the A-League at the very least, in the near term
* Replace De Bohun with an A-League chairmen appointee

Yeah tbf a lot of people are saying it’s OTT but a matter of a lot of disconentment dredging to the surface and coalescing around this issue

For mine I reckon they are a tired administration, in terms of vision perhaps need to put an independent HAL back on the agenda

lol @ Mitcher, well said

“it was a non-event for me” yet he is curiously watching every detail of what they were doing around the 30′ mark and how it corresponded to what was happening on the pitch

Lol

Question for them is will they keep the up the pressure for reform in their own way, eg ADP speeches, Bosnich questions etc

For the fans this means their own form of pressure

For my part I would say if it is longer term than support the club still but in the wings

Well actually the fight IS important for the game itself

The game is largely united so the NSL talk is a bit OTT, it’s only the FFA who are out of step with everyone else

Ultimately there needs to be a change from zero tolerance to friendly but firm and secondly an autonomously run A-League

There’s a lot of issues coalescing around this matter, ultimately FFA need to move out of 2005

Yeah agree, one of those things where the heat needs to be kept on the matter

Eg if the heats off the FFA will just try and keep the same regime as much as possible and only window dress, there needs to be fundamental change for the good of the sport in the long term

There’s also a lot of question about how they get their evidence and their methodologies

The merits of their “zero tolerance” approach needs to be debated (constructively) as well

Yeah what you don’t get is it’s gone from people being banned for serious offences to people being banned for evermore frivolous offences

I’d imagine the “stand by 198” isn’t so much a defence of what many of them have done, some have been banworthy events, it’s that they were subjected to firstly a system which isn’t in keeping with Australian standards and secondly because they have then had their names and photos published and then slandered in a major circulating newspaper

Even in trials there is principles of restrictions on public discussion to enable objective Juries etc

Yeah but to fans mind they haven’t won, appeals process is just dealing with symptoms, the discussion of it makes it easy to highlight the due process issues riddled throughout their approach

On top of that there is fundamentally something wrong with the FFA’s attitude to stakeholders, so it’s more than just clumsiness that they took so long it is a matter of reluctance and even a degree where they probably agree with Wilson and Jones

For mine we need to start moving towards an independent HAL

This “february” thing is just a matter of taking the heat out and when the heats off they’ll just make meaningless tinkering and that’s it

Yeah, hard to escape the feeling they only finally came out with it reluctantly “because they had to”

And the continued squirming about how they get evidence to ban people, given the timelengths involved and the way peoples photos ended up in papers don’t think they can continue with the old way

That holds trues in a lot of areas of the games governance, think we have to move towards a more autonomous HAL

lol

nothing petulant about the whole thing at all, there are issues of condescending treatment but most of all are the concerns of the major violation of civil liberties which anyone can understand

Sounds like you are having your perspective coloured on this issue by your past perspective on NT protests. Worth considering that fans everywhere felt it unnecassary

I don’t think this resolved anything, deal with it in February? What should have been a one-week issue has turned into a two week issue and possibly longer

For mine I’ve been really surprised at how it’s snowballed

Been in a few season long standoffs that were a little wearisome at times because end of the day they were necassary but at the same time they were the best seasons because of how everyone closed ranks, became closer and it led to change and ultimately it is character building

Tbh I’m not wearied by this at all because of the way the media are attacking them in a way I’ve never seen before

This is actually larger than the FFA and fans, it’s dredged up a lot of simmering tensions between the FFA and all stakeholders which have been brewing for a while and is playing out around this issue and just have to let it takes its course

I think it’s a good thing in the grand scheme of things as we may finally now have the climate for real change that needs to occur, eg move the FFA out of 2005 but more importantly the structure needs to be adjusted to suit 2015

There’s nothing to worry about, there may be talk of “crisis” at times as things play out but really everything is fundamentally fine as we have MV with 27k members and WS have held onto 15k members despite a poor season so the core of the league in Melbourne and Sydney is fine

Ultimately the shackles need to be thrown off to allow football to move forward, FFA’s obsolete mindset has got to the point where they are holding the A-League back instead of guiding it forward

lol

yeah poaching Ange would have left a lot of bad blood as it undermined their plans at the time significantly. Thankfull it’s turned out OK given the way Kev has stepped up.

Think it was tricky getting Kewell in Melbourne finalised too

First impression when I saw the SBS headline was for how sweet it would have been for him to be able hammer the FFA with the “mediocrity” line

Yeah it’s all rather finely balanced, eg having all HE’s on song, having active fans on song with passive fans etc

I was thinking people were being a bit OTT in calling for heads initially, then someone pointed out Gallop is friends with Wilson and Hartigan (whoever that is?) from the NRL days and didn’t mention her by name in the first presser and perhaps they have a point

I wasn’t surprised at Wilsons article, or the FFA’s weak response, disapointed but not shocked and I’ve already got a while ago FFA don’t have a lot of time for fans (or other stakeholders like owner investors)

Best article I’ve read through this though was Lucy Zelic in which she called for heads, because she went into the pattern of their mistakes and she has a point,

they’ve really been off the ball on a few things recently, PFA negotiations, they screwed the FFA Cup Final through the substantial markups in price. Maybe Steven Lowy is fine for the job but the whole unchallenged nepotism thing isn’t a good look. This type of thing happens to a Govt that’s been in power too long

For my part I’m not so bothered about calling for heads, as it’s pointless if the replacements are in keeping with the same organisational culture of thinking

Rather it might be good to look at the difference between FFA and A-League chairmen who have their ears closer to the ground on the issue,

Think it might be better to start debating the merits of the 2003 Crawford report recommendation about an independent HAL instead of calling for heads to roll

For mine I don’t trust it at all, this February talk just designed to buy time so they can figure out how to window dress things and still carry on the same way

Worth saying I don’t trust them after NT negotiated a way to work the Home End after a season long standoff in 2008 which we used for our first ACL campaign to great effect, only for FFA to override it based on a “review” by the newly appointed Hatamoto so for mine I don’t like the words FFA and review in the same sentence and I have a tricky time trusting their motives

Appeals process is just a symptom of a greater process which has flawed assumptions as I’ve stated elsewhere, so re-jigging that won’t fundamentally resolve things tbh

This isn’t just about the fans though, they are a bit funny to everyone, eg clubs, media, players, coaches even

Haha

@ RBB Anon, any links to the Fraser and Gorman perspectives?

I like Archie Fraser, might be the only A-League chief I have liked

Gorman did well at WSW and CCM

Not really, the FFA’s approach of ever more intensive bannings is what is diminishing attendances, I should know I’m an inaugural member and seen first hand how the overzealous crackdown does more to harm attendances then the occasional rowdiness ever did

Nothing juvenile about a gross violation of civil liberties

lol

@ Kaks

Trust me we aren’t all as “dull” as Fuss

Found it funny actually that he comes out with a line about Gallops response being perfectly what he would expect from a CEO of an organisation and then not too long after our own CEO and Chairman who are running the club well atm come out in complete contrast to Fuss’s opinion

I don’t mind Fuss as it prevents groupthink and keeps the debate honest even though my perspective is frequently different

As for MV and WS fans, joint march might be a bit much, if there was a walkout at the exact same time like the 30th minute mark that might have the desired effect. As long as everyone is on the same page ala WS and CCM fans on the W/E

Yeah as I’ve said elsewhere, A-League chairman should determine who sits in De Bohuns current position.

If for example they did determine A-League chief, then said person would have come out swinging in defence of the A-League “product” than an FFA person who may be caught up in mainstream media relationship politics and they would have greter authority than a single FFA Chairman, eg what’s helping fans now is that everyone but ultimately the 2 Sydney teams + MV fans all on the same page, so 3 biggest clubs makes for a powerful combined effect as would the combined power of the HAL Chairmen

This nicely reflects a point I’ve noticed about the fans being connected more to HAL clubs than the Socceroos, balance of power is shifting and the difference in speeches including WS and Charlesworth comments certainly shows their ears are much closer to the ground and their fingers on the pulse

As for culture, I can understand why in 2005 there needed to be weariness given the shadow of the NSL loomed in the background of the start-up years, but 11 years in we are past the start-up phase and so a different mindset is required

Yeah you may have a point, thing with somewhat like ADP is he is from a club and had to have to do groundwork in growing the game and product as a Businessman

Often at the top levels we often have Bureaucrats, Bureaucrats are great at tinkering programs meddling in peoples lives and institutional politics and all of this rubbish but not at practically growing things

Lowy is a Businessman, great at running shopping centre Businesses which is really about housing other businesses and not necassarily about products but anyway it’s a bit different to growing a football business

Ultimately, out of this, I think we are at the point there needs to be not just reform in fan relations, but also a further devolution of power the the clubs coming out of this, eg the A-League needs to become more autonomous and I reckon the position of A-League chief which De Bohun currently occupies should be determined by A-League chairmen from this point on

In hindsight, the owners actually putting money in may have been better to negotiate A-League player salary cap structure than the FFA as they can better argue the economic merits

Yeah two years ago they weren’t managing things well at all

ADP didn’t seem to have a knack for getting coaches for one thing, nearly went from Mehmet to Magiltion

We got a bit lucky with Ange willing to come down from Brisbane, and thankfully Muscat has learned well under him and filled the vacuum better than anyone could have expected

And that’s without going through the games they played with the NT, but thankfully they seemed to have learned from that brutal experience and putting those lessons to good effect currently

For mine I can abide people making mistakes, happens with outsiders coming into football, what I look for is the willingness to open their mind and learn from those mistakes. Atm the FFA are very close-minded to changing and even today I saw Gallop continue to squirm around the sources of intelligence that leads to bans, probably because it would be controversial