Kalgoorlie is really a fascinating league and whatsmore the nick name of the Mines Rovers ( Diorities ) has to be the one of the strangest nicknames going around. Diorite is a rock found around Kalgoorlie, the Golden Mile Diorite is the most important host rock for gold.

It was not that long ago that Shield cricketers could not make a living unless they had a ACB contract, witness the rise of 20/20 and the IPL and many more kids have a career path, particularly in the southern/western states if you good at football and cricket and many kids were/are, a AFL career was the only real option.

Being somewhat loosely involved in youth representative cricket ( as a parent and some coaching) the feeling has changed in the last 5 or so years that there are plenty more options available to cricketers these days as far as making a living.

A example is Clint Hinchcliffe from WA, very good cricketer and very good footballer, he was not picked up in the 2015 AFL draft and possibly not be picked up now, unless as a mature age player, he was also in the Australian under 19 cricket team, 10 years ago a cricket career was probably way behind a AFL career however recently cricket because of 20/20 has become a much more viable option.

To play 20/20 you actually need to learn how to bowl, bat and field and understand the rules, hence i don’t understand why people who just follow test cricket put it down, it is entertaining, pure entertainment.

The same thing was said initially about 50/50 cricket that it will wreck the game.

Wookie is wookie, he can do and say what he likes.

In he above posts these are your quotes –

DB swannie said — But participation numbers are NOT an indication of interest .

DB SWannie said — So yes Auskick school participation is not a sign of interest or growth.

DB SWannie said –I& when it comes to a choice between kicking a ball or sitting in a classroom or library they will kick a ball .

How do you know participation numbers are not a sign of interest ?.

How do you know what the rest of the school does when in school auskick session are on ?.

Sources please.

You throw a few sensationalist lines in from from a 3 year old report but conveniently leave out bits that actually give valid reasons why the conversion rate from school to club is poor in WS.

It’s not hard to figure out, non traditional sport, not main sport, kids doing other things on weekends, weak links between school auskick and clubs, families think they have done auskick etc.

You stated auskick was compulsory, you stated it a couple of posts ago, you stated auskick participation is not a sign of interest and you stated that kids who don’t play auskick are left in the library, you stated the schools rather than the kids sign up to auskick alluding once again to it being compulsory, it is all above.

You have changed tack from stating auskick here in Australia is compulsory, you claimed you never said it, but those posts like many of yours have been deleted, to now auskick is compulsory O/S, i am pretty sure they don’t make any one kick a Sherrin who does not want to, but i imagine in your mind they force kids.

I have quoted Lawson and further to your pick and choose quotes i have provided the whole lot, which go further than just some throw away sensationalist lines you like to present.

The reality is that you had SFA of an idea how even auskick worked it had to be explained and spelled out to you and yet still you can’t comprehend it.

Please explain how you know that kids will be left in the library whilst the others are out kicking a ball, please explain how 21,700 kids who registered and payed to undertake auskick In NSW in 2012 over a term had no interest, i wish you could explain the logic that drives you to that conclusion ?.

But it seems you can’t explain any of it

You stated auskick is compulsory, you even stated it a couple of posts ago, you stated kids who don’t do auskick are kept in the library, you stated schools not kids sign up , you stated auskick registration is no sign of interest in football.

Where are YOUR sources for all these statements.

You have failed miserably to back up any of these statements with a shred of proof.

Brennan was a bit like Mark Waugh or David Gower, very casual, when they got out they appeared to be lazy or hit loose shots, but when they were on they looked brilliant, the exact opposite of Steve Waugh who wore his heart his sleeve and was very very intense.

Not putting Brennan in that class but he had the same casual attitude

In many ways it is a real shame that AFL football is so structured, unstructured or loosely structured NT football or in fact much football outside the AFL system allows for much more flair and excitement.

Love NT footy, should be picked up by a FTA network or fox.

Where are your sources, are you serious ?

Where are your sources that auskick is compulsory in schools, where are your sources that kids who sign and pay for auskick are not interested at all in football, where are your sources that kids who do not play auskick are left in the library ?. where are your sources that schools make kids play auskick.

You are exactly right, the situation is a farce, as i posted before the last real terror attack at the MCG was in the 1980’s when Holding, Roberts, Ambrose, Walsh, Garner and Colin Croft who struggled for a game terrorised Border and his boys.

I really hope they get rid of it, it actually just gives the terrorists or supposed terrorists a win, i say supposed because i don’t think we have had any at sporting events here and in reality SFA around the world.

The facts have been laid out, auskick is not compulsory, here, SA, NZ or timbuktoo, the school approaches or is approached by the AFL, then it is offered to kids who must sign and pay, kids choose between lots of things, kids that don’t join auskick are not left in the library unless of course it is offered and they decide to do that, i would be interested to know how you know that if kids don’t join auskick they are left in the library or a classroom ?.

You just continue to make endless assumptions, your posts stated that auskick was compulsory, you also continue to state registration of auskick is not any form of interest, until you backtracked and said maybe a just a few are interested !, yet they were interested enough to join and pay !

Then your next tac is they are not interested enough to join a club after school auskick, the answers to that have been laid out for you.

As i stated before kids who undertake auskick but do not join club football have a better appreciation of the game, have been exposed to the game in most likely a non traditional area and most likely will not grow up sifting through endless AFL reports looking for any negative comments to hang their hat on.

The only things you try to find are comments in reports that you can twist and bend to suit to what amounts to basically a sour agenda

Aha, so now it has gone from auskick compulsory in Australian schools and once that myth was destroyed it has gone to compulsory auskick in NZ and SA schools.

There are many reasons which have been plainly spelled out to you why in school auskick has not seem a huge spike in registered club players, it was all in the lawson report, it appears your reading skills are confined to just what you want to read.

Those reasons are all in above posts.

I would have thought footy wild in SA would most likely be free or close to it, when you are scratching around in the townships for a job and something to eat, i reckon most kids would be happy for anyone putting in any effort to help them, but at any rate here is the quote from the SA AFL —

The program is run on weekdays, usually straight after school at a central venue within easy walking distance of at least four Primary schools. Each school attends on their rostered day to run through the footyWILD BIG 5 skill stations in a 90 minute session, allowing each child to practise the BIG 5 skills again and again. The program runs for at least 20 weeks of the school year providing a well organized opportunity for boys and girls to play together.

footyWILD BIG 5 is run by local community-based volunteers who have been trained on how to deliver the program by AFL South Africa Development staff.

As far as NZ is concerned you have to register for kiwikick for insurance purposes, kiwikick is not compulsory, just like Australia you have to register and in many/most instances pay.

You have backtracked on your claim that auskick is compulsory at schools in Australia and that auskick registration is not any indication at all of interest, i imagine you will be backtracking on your new claims that auskick is now compulsory in SA and NZ schools and everyone who looks at a sherrin is counted as a participant.

The recent posts on this board regarding Birchgrove made me think, why didn’t the Balmain Junior rugby league submit their playing numbers !, well according to the Leichardt council the only rugby league club using Birchgrove Oval as a home ground was Balmain PCYC.

According to their website this year they only have 2 teams, a under 12 team and a under 9 team.

Perhaps that’s why they did not submit any numbers to the council.

@ TW, it is true the debate about participation numbers will go on, however i take exception at posters who have an extremely narrow agenda, these same posters appear to not even understand the fundamentals of how auskick in school works, to claim that schools force kids to play auskick and then they are then counted as auskickers after a hour long session is just pure nonsense.

The Lawson report and mind you it is a 2012 report, whilst stating that school and community auskick numbers mask falling club regos in Western Sydney ( down 6% from 2009-12) the fact is that more than kids than ever are actually kicking around a Sherrin.

It also gives reasons why school auskickers do not go to club and i quote —

1. children/parents who do not enjoy the In-School or Community Auskick program will be reluctant to sign-up with the local Club Auskick. Lack of enjoyment results from poor delivery or poor content, or both,

2. children/parents who do enjoy the In-School or Community Auskick program may feel they have „done‟ Australian football. In fact, they have only sampled a satellite program and may not have been directed to their local Club Auskick or junior football club

Never mind either that the game is not the traditional game for the area in a crowded sports market !!.

The Lawson also states in various parts —

“The Australian game has an acceptable brand image. Consumers are finally at the table‟.

and the CONCLUSION
“Australian football in the Greater Sydney Region is reasonably healthy, with all stakeholders
diligently addressing their operational issues.”

You actually failed to understand how auskick actually worked in schools, it had to be explained to you and you apparently are some sort of self annointed guru on how the AFL works, but only when a possible negative ramification pops up, you actually thought the school signed everyone up and everyone was forced to do it, it was and has been pointed out to you that kids had to sign and pay and it was run as an elective or part of an extended curriculum.

Thats is exactly why you have been running the line that participation in school auskick is not any measure of interest, because you were under the impression that everyone was forced to do it as part of school.

Now you turn around and state that in relation to school auskick interest and i quote — ” I never said none .i said very few”, when in fact you never wavered from stating and i quote — “So yes Auskick school participation is not a sign of interest or growth or But participation numbers are NOT an indication of interest ” and quite a few other posts that quite rightly have been deleted.

A bizarre claim that has seen you now backtracking.

DB swannie said — But participation numbers are NOT an indication of interest .

DB SWannie said — So yes Auskick school participation is not a sign of interest or growth.

Mossman state school is how auskick works in a school, no one forces kids to sign, the school does not sign up and make the whole school participate, kids and parents are given choice.

Auskick through schools is a fantastic way for kids to grow up in a non traditional AFL environment or state and break down biases handed down from parents or elsewhere against a sport that has never been traditionally favoured in the area !.

Who know those kids may actually grow up and when running sporting clubs themselves, not make comments like ” AFL should go somewhere else” or perhaps not spend copious amounts of their lives poring over reports of sporting bodies they detest and then spinning a bent version of it anyway !.

Yes, i say perhaps because sometimes the opposite of what seems to be logic happens, did anyone foresee the flooding around the ball that happened via unlimited I/C ?, most people foresaw the better players getting longevity in the game by being able to rest along with increased pace and skills because players wee able to rotate more, so fatigue was less of a factor.

The increased number of what we now term midfielders, combined with unlimited I/C, combined with increased fitness, combined with getting numbers to the ball which BTW has been a catchcry for as long as i can remember have combined to make for more stoppages than what i care to remember, PERHAPS cutting I/C will stop the flood of numbers around the ball, slow down the game or at least stop the frenetic pace and lead to more positional play.

For example — Mossman State School ( Cairns)- Auskick Fridays beginning October 31 till December 12, 11:30am – 12:30pm, $65 cost.

Mossman school hours –

8 .50 am ​Warning bell
​8.55 am to 11.00 am ​First session
​11.00 am to 11.30 am ​First play
​11.30 am to 11.45 am ​Eating time – in classrooms
​11.45 am to 1.30 pm ​Second session
​1.30 pm to 1.50 pm Second play
​1.50 pm to 2.00 pm ​ Eating time – in classrooms
​2.00 pm to 3.00 pm ​ Third session
​3.00 pm ​ End of school

The kids that SIGNED and PAYED for auskick do auskick 11:30 -12:30 and the kids that did not do other things, yet we have had you constantly stating that in school auskick is not representative of any form of interest, can you explain that ?.

Step by step for the challenged.

1. AFL offers or is approached by school to provide auskick over a term for kids during school hours.

2. School accepts offer and then offers auskick as an elective to kids

3. Many kids are quite happy to kick a ball, they accept, sign and pay – 21, 700 in NSW in 2012

4. Auskick sessions take place, kids who sign up take part, kids who don’t undertake other electives for term.

no school makes kids sign up to auskick, some schools offer it as part of a extended curriculum, just like the choir or band or after school tennis etc, the kids either choose to join or don’t, if you choose to join you pay the fee.

@ DB, understand this, the school signs up either by being approached or approaching the local AFL body and then offer the in school auskick sessions, in 2012 in NSW 21,700 kids signed up, not all schools have it or offer it, those 21,700 kids obviously have an interest or they wouldn’t have bothered signing up, it is usually an hour a week for a semester.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=0-3392-0-0-0&sID=54865&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=22171368

Can you follow, this link provides both in and out of school auskick centers around Cairns, the times, costs and location, some obviously during school hours and most out, how you can post that kids that sign up and pay and participate are not an indication of interest is just outright bizarre.

The school does not make kids sign up to Auskick, the school offers it and then the kids decide.

I read 4.3.1… here is the quote, —- In the chase for participant numbers in NSW and ACT, a shortened and often subsidised
version of Auskick has been aggressively rolled out in primary schools (In-School Auskick) and
after-school centres (Community Auskick). The In-School participants have rarely elected to
join an Auskick program. Their school has chosen to include an Auskick program.

Junior club feedback has indicated that the In-School and Community versions have, at times,
harmed Club Auskick. Consequently, the longer term retention of entry level participants has
been jeopardised in two fundamental ways, discussed shortly.—– end of quote.

So many kids have elected to try it but in general have not elected to join a club, that in essence does not mean they have no interest, that could mean a variety of things including , it is not their number one sport, their parents don”t like it or would prefer them to concentrate on another sport , they have a wide variety of activities and they have no time yada yada yada.

You really are fixated to the point of interpreting things that are just not there.

Are you aware that for over 100 years the game of Australian football was played by 18 men with 2 reserves, initially those 2 reserves could only replace a injured or what was considered a injured man, who then could not come back on the ground, if more than 2 were injured , you played a man short.

Sheedy begged for more players on the bench and then unlimited interchange or maybe the other way around, on this point he should have not been listened too, a pandoras box was opened and actual footballers miss out for athletes and has the game been any better as a spectacle ?, it is debatable, IMO in many instances it has not, it is too quick and then with stoppages too slow.

If the game has less interchanges perhaps it will naturally slow down and perhaps we will have less mistakes, but perhaps it will not, no one really knows the answer.

And BTW no one is forcing players to do anything, the AFL should never have wilted under Sheedys and probably other coaches pressure to have unlimited I/C, who could have foresaw how unlimited I/C would change the game.

The Lawson report states that in WS in 2012, plenty of kids are doing auskick, but are not flowing on to clubs, hence non club auskick is masking a falling rate of club footballers (, 6% less junior/youth players in 2012 than in 2009 ). it does not state or come close to stating that participation in auskick are from kids disinterested in football, that is clearly your take.

Lawson makes a fair point, school and community auskick was getting too many kids, but they were not making the transition to club, he goes on to say and i quote — “By their own admission, only half the surveyed junior club Presidents think Auskick is their club‟s main recruiter.Given the great reputation of Auskick as a recruiter, more junior clubs need to be convinced of the benefits of Auskick.”

6% less footballers in 2009 than 2012 from a very low base is not a huge amount and whats the bet the drop off was biggest in 14, 15 year old , age bracket.

Lawson also made 2 very important points and i quote — 1. children/parents who do not enjoy the In-School or Community Auskick program will be reluctant to sign-up with the local Club Auskick. Lack of enjoyment results from poor delivery or poor content, or both,

2. children/parents who do enjoy the In-School or Community Auskick program may feel they have „done‟ Australian football. In fact, they have only sampled a satellite program and may not have been directed to their local Club Auskick or junior football club3
.