AndyS , I’m happy to go along with any decision to change things around, as long as we do something.

Jeznez, I understand that this is not for everyone, together with local likes and dislikes stirring local club politics is not going to get us where we need to be. The issues for the survival of rugby union and for it to regain all the lost code territory is at stake. You will never please everyone and what I’m putting forward isn’t meant to do that.

I’m also open to better ideas if any one has them as I’m just not happy where we are at with rugby union in Australia and looking for some answers and possible solutions.

AndyS, no problem I’ll keep banging away looking for solutions. At least Im not sucked in about how good SRP is for Australian rugby, trying to survive on code killing financial scraps, while we decline from having been a 1st tier rugby nation to now a 2nd tier rugby nation, as quoted by EJ.

If you think of another way out or solution I’m listening.

Jeznez, it’s great the universities support club rugby and participate.

I could guarantee you that if I went to any club with a proposal that guarantees them $x million per annum from a share of a broadcasting deal, but your obligation is to put all the players in your squad have to be on salary, and you can pick players from anywhere, this would be a no brainer.

They in turn also run the risk of being relegated by a hungrier better run club who want a bigger share of the broadcasting income.

Jeznez, with respect your comparing apples with oranges.

So what’s the solution to do nothing because it may not work?

The NRC model is completely different from a domestic club rugby competition with existing sports grounds, established club personnel and community support.

If the returns and benefits can be established then it becomes purely an investment decision, that’s how companies work. There is none of this emotion that I’m hearing.

Jeznez, how much per annum, does Sydney University pay do you know? They are the richest university in Australia with a $billion balance sheet.

Jeznez, yes SRP generates most of the cost, and actually runs at a loss, even though RA reported a profit in 2022, the first time since the last World Cup in 2003, 18 years.

It was a miracle RA reported a profit, but the carried forward losses are so big actually enormous, it will never ever pay tax.

The financial model is unsustainable and that’s why I’m banging on about corporatising Australian domestic club rugby. It could possibly be the financial saviour to RA as it would get a share of the much bigger broadcasting income for “brokering” the deal, with none of the carried costs.

I can’t believe that RA isn’t all over this as it is so simple.

So Brett is an expert journalist not a journalist? Seems like a lot of hair splitting going on.

Big A, I love it!

AndyS, the tax effectiveness of corporate ownership of a rugby club would be in the basis that it is not a gift. If one should sponsor anything, then this becomes a transaction, a bit like naming a stadium. A benefit with a cost. The same rules would apply to a company ownership. The cost is the running of the organisation and the benefits are the advertising, market profile and the share of the broadcasting income.

Just because it isn’t familiar to you and you haven’t seen it before doesn’t mean it’s not an effective legal pathway. It’s how it’s treated in entries in a profit and loss statement.

It has nothing to do with the Australian tax payer subsidising rugby.

The reason Australian rugby should leverage this pathway as most of our wealth is held by the value of our corporations, both private and public.

Jeznez, the $40 m per annum is the gross figure published by RA for its share in the broadcasting rights for rugby union, specifically for SRP and the Rugby Championship, as I understand it. I also believe this is not all in cash, as part of it includes “promotional “ value by the broadcasters.

If this is incorrect or you can add any light I would really appreciate any feedback.

Brett I did answer but you didn’t seem to like the answer, because it was clearly more than a “bubble thought”.

We would also like to hear your answers to see where you stand with regard to Australia’s participation in SRP and it’s code killing broadcasting income share of $40 m pa.

You’re in a position of influence and it is disappointing that you don’t use this privileged position to seek answers to the hard questions, the basis of good journalism, right?

TWIN, ok, so you think it won’t work as there will be no support from corporations? Is that right?

Why do you think that as it’s not too late yet?

So what’s your idea, keep things as they are?

It’s time to act and not let international rugby competitions get away from us like they have with soccer?

It’ll be like I should have bought that house yesterday, now the market has jumped in value and I can’t afford to buy. Rugby in Australia has to get into the market .

Big A, thanks mate, I’m not going anywhere, as it is a no brainer! You’re right 4 test matches between now and September is a “silver lining “ for AFL and NRL to get into the news, get the public attention while rugby has effectively gone to sleep.

It took 2 years from 2013 to 2015 of banging away to get the Giteau Rule introduced.
Now it’s time to push for a professional domestic rugby competition in Australia and get rid of our SRP participation.. then we won’t need a Giteau Rule because all our players will be in the domestic competition.

We could have both domestic and SRP while we transition to the domestic a club rugby competition. As the salaries will be better in the club competition SRP would fizzle out.

Brett, always the skeptic.
I can name 200 “possibles “. Check the names on the ASX 200. If I can’t find enough names then let’s try all the other names lower down the ASX board. That’s another 2000 names.
One can also try all the international companies trading in Australia who also wish to lift their profile like Amazon, Apple, SAP, Microsoft, EBay, Airbnb to name a few.
How about you name 5 who won’t so it’ll save time by not having a meeting?
What’s your plan, keep things as they are? What stay in SRP?
Also what’s your plan to increase the broadcasting income from the code killing amount of $40 m per annum from SRP?
How’s that for a thought bubble?

TWIN, the question is could one get Australian corporations to back domestic club rugby, like they have in for example in Japan? Hino this Toyota that etc.

Wouldn’t the proposal to the corporation would look like this: you get to put your name on the club, e.g. “Santos GPS” in QLD or “Westpac Western Harbour” – Sydney to lift your name awareness, the player salaries are tax deductible, and you get a share of the broadcasting money.

How much broadcasting income will be generated? A lot more than $40m than is being received by RA for participating in SRP.

If it were me I would have the RA’s marketing team market the proposal, acting as agent, to the corporations, get the clubs who want to participate together, and negotiate the broadcast deal. As agent RA would then be entitled to a share, say 10% of income, as an annual fee.

There are at least 200 corporations on the ASX, plus another 1,000 if you wanted to expand you could start with in a marketing program.

That’s how I see the deal being put together. All the resources are already in place, it’s just a matter of having a business plan and to bring it all together.

It’s a much better proposition than SRP is for Australian rugby.

DATF, that’s a solution playing up to September, but how died you increase the broadcasting income above $40 m under this model, which requires more high quality content?

DATF, not having all the players participating in a professional rugby competition for 7 months is a long time, and financially constraining, crazy!

Not having a regular professional club rugby competition throughout the autumn to spring months in Australia is a free pass to AFL and the NRL to provide content to the broadcasters. That’s why they make a combined $1.050 billion per annum from providing content and rugby union earns a code killing $40 million.

Cookie, I wouldn’t worry too much about any interruptions during a professional domestic club rugby competition that runs from May to September.

The 6 Nations in Europe don’t seem to have a problem, and the advantage we have in the Southern Hemisphere is 4 nations, but I’d like to see it go to 5 with Fiji being included, and to consider another team from our brothers in the South Pacific.

Under this domestic model we could use our club rugby competition as the feeder for the Wallabies, as we will have depth domestically we won’t need to include Australian players in off shore competitions, and all the benefits that go with that situation.

Brett, I think the Brumbies did an admiral job on Saturday, but it is clear Australian super rugby teams are not as good as our cousins from NZ.

Now that Australian Super rugby teams have been knocked out of the competition, we can now look forward to test rugby and the World Cup.

Unfortunately there is not much rugby to watch apart from unprofessional club rugby. At least they offer local derbies and we get to see the up and coming talent.

I guess all those new rugby fans who had a some interest in rugby union can now switch to the richer in content and income generating AFL and NRL. Let’s hope they switch back in 7 months time February 2024 to watch SRP.

It would be great to have our own a fully professional domestic corporate owned rugby competition that runs from May to September to provide higher standard, more valuable content to the broadcasters.

All that RA (Phil Waugh) needs to do is get the clubs, interested corporate entities, and the broadcasters together and stitch together a deal.

Then we would have fully professional rugby competition with domestic and international players participating at a high domestic standard, with the international players having to worry about being released to play for their country.

TWIU, that’s a great question, do I think this model would work for soccer in Australia?

It had occurred to me when I have been putting forward this concept, and you may have seen that I have not aimed my responses to include soccer. I only talk about AFL and NRL, who are essentially Australian only sports and do not experience the contest for players from offshore.

Yes the same model I have been putting forward would work for soccer, but it has a drawback, the cost of transfers to get international stars playing in our league and the offers available to domestic players are enormous financially. Soccer is a mature truely international professional sport.

Rugby being less mature the cost of international player contracts are a fraction of what international soccer players are offered and receive. Therefore under a domestic professional rugby model Australia has a greater chance of competing with the international player contracts to keep their play’s participating domestically. Rugby can still compete to match the amounts or at least come close, for the moment to international playing contract amounts. For example: soccer players get paid $10’s of millions and greater, where as rugby stars are between $1 m and $2 m.

This won’t always be the case as rugby contracts are increasing in value, but they are still within reach, with these costs being offset with the broadcasting income.

This is why RA need to pull together the clubs, create a list of interested corporations, the broadcasters and start to build a business model to create a competition that can be the fire wall against international rugby competitions. There is not a moment to lose.

Geoff, with respect, I think you have it upside down. You start with a proposal in the form of a business plan showing an outcome and return on investment. Then one introduces the proposal to the corporations. It’s a simple numbers game with actionable steps.

That’s how to kick this off. Not a difficult task with the right skill sets and team to market the idea.

I’d be happy to show RA if they think that it’s beyond their capabilities.

Geoff, thank you. I have to correct you it isn’t a “third tier” rugby competition, it is a corporate owned 3 tier domestic rugby competition with relegation. The money for club funding comes from the initial investment by the new corporate owners. The return to the corporate owners is increased public profile and sharing the much bigger broadcast income. A win win all round.

If it were me I would appoint RA to act as agent on behalf of the clubs to negotiate the increased high quality content with the broadcasters and to market the business plan to the corporations to act as “owners” and rebrand the clubs in their likeness.

As agent RA would be entitled to a share of that income, say 10%, as an example. At the end of the day what is RA? It is a sporting body and agent for the benefit and growth of rugby union in Australia, right?

There is over $1 billion currently being received by the other winter sports in broadcast income. A big fat juicy lump of money to redirect to rugby union!

This isn’t some kind of “third tier” rugby competition being proposed.

Jcmasher, me I’m all joy!! Where we disagree, is that if you had a tiered corporate owned domestic club rugby competition with international players participating to lift the standard and public interest, the standard would have the possibility to become as strong as super rugby.

I think in turn the need for overseas Australian players required to play for the Wallabies would diminish as they would all be playing domestically.

If you can think of a better plan, I’m listening!

Jeff, not going to give this up! Not while SRP is clearly a rubbish format for Australian rugby, providing code killing income.

As a matter of interest what’s your plan for getting us out of this code killing mess? Please don’t suggest us staying in Super Rugby!