The issue of promotion and relegation, again
By Pippinu, 11 Aug 2009 Pippinu is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- A-League, FFA, football, Joel Griffiths, salary cap
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Central Coast Mariners players (L to R) Tom Pendeljak, Matthew Simon and John Hutchinson sit dejected after loosing 0-1 to the Newcastle Jets in the A-League Grand Final in Sydney on Saturday, Feb. 24, 2008. AAP Image/Paul Miller
I recently read that Adam Griffiths had just signed with a Saudi club. An attraction for him was the fact that the side had finished fourth last season and had qualified for the ACL.
Naturally, this got me thinking about our prospects of having four teams qualifying for the ACL, which in turn, inevitably led me to mulling over the question of promotion and relegation.
Now, I know this topic comes up regularly on many forums, so I thought I would use this article to synthesise some of the better ideas I have come across in the blogosphere (including my own, of course).
Assumptions:
1. Promotion and relegation is going to be tough in the Australian context – don’t pay attention to anyone who thinks otherwise. I’m not saying impossible, I’m just saying it will be extremely difficult.
2. The next TV deal will result in an approximate doubling of TV rights from where we are presently (realistic, but by no means a given).
3. The current trend of plenty of bidders for licenses will continue into the foreseeable future, meaning that the A-League could breach 16 teams in four or five years.
Each assumption in turn leads to an important plank of how we get to a promotion and relegation system.
Firstly, why will it be difficult?
Consider what every single club CEO has ever said about the prospects for their club. I will bet you that at some stage or another, they have said something along the following lines: if we can get some success on the field, our future looks bright, and so on.
Does anyone see the obvious paradox in these sorts of statements?
Clearly, in a very young league, with most clubs still struggling to establish themselves, I can tell you right now that if relegation was introduced tomorrow, the first team to be relegated would be as good as dead in the water in terms of its long term viability.
This leads us to the second assumption.
It seems to me that the commercial reality is that even with a doubling of TV rights in a few years time we can choose to either:
a. double salaries; or
b. introduce a second tier,
But we can’t do both. Why?
Because a promotion and relegation system can only work in the Australian context if the second tier is only marginally below the first tier in terms of quality and consequently, access to cash flow.
In other words, the second tier salary cap would need to be around two-thirds of the first tier salary cap, and this immediately tells us that average salaries cannot increase in the same proportion as TV rights because the 2nd tier will need to be subsidised from those TV rights to maintain a relatively high standard (i.e. a standard higher than would otherwise exist if there was no cross-subsidisation).
Now the third assumption: what was the point of mentioning ongoing growth that would take us beyond 16 clubs? To start a comp from scratch with 8, 10 or whatever number of clubs is actually a big ask at the best of times.
For this reason it has occurred to me that if we can achieve steady growth to 16 teams, in that final year where we accept the last two clubs to make up the 16 teams, the FFA would proclaim the commencement of a second tier the following season, on the understanding that the two bottom teams of the current season would be relegated, to be joined by six new teams to form the new second tier.
We would then end up with 14 teams in the A-League, and 8 teams in the First Division (for argument’s sake).
There’s nothing magical about these numbers except to state that a jump in six teams in the one year is about the very tallest order we should be aiming for – anything higher is just too difficult in terms of logistics, in other words, it’s a realistic transition plan.
But make no mistake, even with all of the above occurring (more or less), the second tier would present a major challenge for years to come. I would predict a revolving door of clubs at the bottom of that second tier continuing for decades, maybe forever.
Would we end up with a permanent top three or four clubs as is to be found in the rest of the World?
Not while there’s a salary cap we won’t.
On the contrary, I would envisage a solid big 10 (or so) teams, with three or four at the bottom of the first tier in a constant struggle to stay above, joined by the team newly promoted.
The honest truth is that if we end up with a solid big 10 or so clubs who never experience relegation, the A-League will probably remain more financially secure.
For instance, what good is there for the league to see the Victory’s membership drop from 30,000 to 10,000 if they were ever to experience relegation? Absolutely zero benefit.
The FFA can’t guarantee that won’t happen of course, but it can progress to the sort of environment where that’s unlikely to happen (it’s in its best interests).
Every now and then, we might get a team rising above the morass on a semi-permanent basis, and that’s where the romanticism comes into it for all those new clubs starting out in the 2nd tier.
The reality for most of these clubs, though, is that life will be short and brutish.
That’s what we will have to pay the piper to get our four teams into the ACL.
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Gazgoldcoast said | August 11th 2009 @ 6:17am | Report comment
LOL That’s Adam Griffiths, Pip, not Joel.
I think that after the WC the FFA needs to start pumping money into Junior development with an 8-year plan in mind. Build up those local clubs across the country, hold onto the young teens who now defect to RL and AFL, and strengthen the bottom of the “football pyramid” for development. You cannot have a second tier league unless clubs are strong right across the board. We Aussies need to show the same passion for our local clubs as the Poms do. Then see what happens!
Tifosi said | August 11th 2009 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Pip, good article. (But i thought it was Adam Griffiths who is moving to a saudi club? Are both of them moving on? )
Personally, Pro/rel is still a long way off. If more money comes into the game it should be spent on raising the salary cap, rather than trying to create a second division.
That in turn should attract more players to the sport which will in turn create a deeper list of suitable players. It will also help stop the flow of aussie players to cashed up asian clubs.
Lets concentrate on our own backyard first before we try to chase two more ACL spots.
Pippinu said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:05am | Report comment
oops – sorry guys – you’re absolutely right!!!!!
that’s what happens when you’re knocking something up late at night
Hopefully the editors will be able to replace Joel with Adam.
[Updated - Eds.]
Pippinu said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Thanks!!!
Mushi said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:19am | Report comment
I think it would be a cataclysmic failure that would alienate the average Australian sports fan. There is a different sense of tribalism when it comes to European football leagues that the A-league does not have.
The promotion/relegation system works in Europe because it is born from an over abundance of teams and talent that needs to be tiered. It is a solution for an embarrassment of riches.
The A-league is the opposite it is still finding its feet talent wise and expanding. Now if the A-league some how achieves what no sport in Australia ever has and manages to get enough talent and national support to run a two tier truly professional league then fine. But I think this is a low probability problem.
I think it would be counter productive if they got to the point where they had the resources to either a further expand and create two tiers, or increase the resources to the existing top tier to create a better quality game (higher paid players, more suitable pitches etc) and they chose expansion.
The other thing that needs to be considered is should expansion be the aim right now? You have some teams struggling to get the break even crowds to games as it is I would have thought consolidation is as important if the HAL doesn’t want to be the NBL in a ten years time should the Socceroos not enjoy sustained success.
Nick said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
How does a lower league with less teams than the top league hope to survive? In every tiered sport the top league has the LEAST teams; Premier League (20), Championship (24), the Guiness Premiersehip (12), National Division One (16) and so on, this is to compensate for the lack of TV rights… they play more games and have a wider geographical scope (in theory).
So how do 8 teams play enough games to warrant attention if the top league has 14 teams? Surely the best approach would be to expand to 20 then cut the league in half and introduce 2 to 4 teams to the bottom league with an eventual aim to have 12 in the top flight and 16 in the second division…
Pippinu said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
Mushi
All very valid viewpoints – this is why I’m at pains to emphasise that it’s a very big ask and I’ve tried to put something forward that is a bit realistic.
Ultimately – it depends a fair bit on what the second TV deal delivers – and as I mention – the FFA will then have to make a decision between increasing salaries for the existing make up of the league – or aiming for the introduction of a P & R system.
If they go with the latter, it will be a calculated risk – they will be weighing up a stack of pros and cons – I’m not saying they would defnitely go that way – but they most certainly would have it in mind the attraction of getting four teams into the ACL – it will be very hard for the FFA to ignore that.
As for promoting youth, as mentioned by both Gaz and Tifosi – I honestly believe that in that respect – a 2nd tier of professional senior teams would do far more than what a Youth League does.
Absolutely nothing – let me be very clear about this – absolutely nothing develops young talent like allowing them to play senior games against senior opposition (rather than agaisnt their peers).
If anyone thinks otherwise, they haven’t looked at the historical evidence too carefully.
Mushi said | August 11th 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Pip to me it still sounds like a Starbucks solution. Hoisting something that works in another anglo country onto Australia without looking at the local landscape.
It relies on the assumption that people will support second division teams, all the evidence on our own shores suggests this isn’t the case. Second tier sport sides are not well supported or funded.
More importantly the relegation expansion would require teams to start in the second division, I struggle to see how these clubs would grow a supporter base in the relative obscurity of the second division.
So from an outsiders analysis I would think they’d need the free cash flow from the current set-up to be able to run these second tier teams for two or three relatively unsupported seasons with some left over to potentially clean up the mess if the experiment failed.
I don’t see the assumed TV rights being able to fund that, so it would basically be betting the house on the outcome.
Pippinu said | August 11th 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Mushi
it’s a fair enough point of view.
A few things have emerged from this morning’s discussion:
1. It will be bloody hard and full of risk (although that in itself is not necessarily a reason not to plan for it); and
2. it can only work if the gap in quality and availability to resources between the two tiers is kept to the bare minimum.
Pippinu said | August 11th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Nick
Fair question.
My first question: Are you sure that that is the case right across the board? That it has always been the case? I would suspect that the answer will not be yes in all cases to both questions.
For example, I know the J-League currently has 18 in each tier, but I’m pretty sure that in their development, they went through a lengthy transition period not too dissimiliar from that which I have described. In many respects, the J-League model (and its history) serves as a far more relevant model than anything that has been happening in Europe over the last century.
But as for splitting 20 teams into 10 – I accept that it’s one possible route.
The only proviso I would mention, which I touch on in the article, is that it’s in the FFA’s best interests that a solid core of 10 or so teams go many years without relegation – if your top tier is reduced to 10 teams – you immediately risk some of these core teams dropping down perhaps a touch prematurely.
As I said at the outset – if one of our current 10 teams were to be relegated tomorrow – they would basically die overnight.
Anyone who thinks that’s not the case is being totally unrealistic about it – let’s not forget that the bulk of them are struggling for financial viability as it is.
Finally, the 8 2nd teir teams is simply a means of kick starting the concept – it may stay 8 teams for only a couple of seasons.
As I said, I predict a revolving door amongst the bottom teams of the 2nd tier, a state of perpetual flux with teams arriving and others disappearing – but in the long run, the numbers competing in that tier would inch upwards.
As a general proposition – I’m not too sure why a 2nd tier couldn’t start with 8 teams given the A-League went the first four seasons with 8 teams.
Nick said | August 11th 2009 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
No your right that it is not universal across the board, but it is a very common situation that the lower leagues have more teams… hence the phrase ‘pyramid’
The real issue is what is constantly brought up considering investment by sponsers in teams that face the threat of relegation. Though I do wonder why you insist on 10 as being a suitable number of necessarly strong teams? Australia really only has about six major populations bases; Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth… surely a strong team from each would be all that is required? Though obviously the more the merrier.
Maybe the FFA would be better advised to promote the state leagues to a better level so that maybe an FA cup style tournament could feature… though obviously the A-League teams would dominate so the chances of upsets English style would be next to impossible… but it could possibly bridge some of the gap and fits the requirement of having a Cup…
Brian Munich said | August 11th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
We’re struggling to field 10 financially viable teams as it is. Do you think Sony would have got on board again with Phoenix knowing there was a good chance they would disappear from view – and probably TV – into a second tier the next season?
The existing A-league clubs need to be able to plan their future with some certainty, and that means a guarantee that they’ll be ongoing fixtures in the league. I think the notion of a second tier is way premature. For goodness sakes, the FFA is struggling to find a 12th team as it is!
Tell me the population centres that will be able to support another 10 or so teams – and I don’t mean ethnically-based clubs that would pull 1,500 spectators.
One of the best things about the A-league has been the lessons learned from 25 years of mostly mediocrity from the old NSL. Let’s not revisit those days.
md said | August 11th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Good article.
I think the key issue is maintaining viability and interest in the second tier. Having the second tier play in front of $5K crowds and being of little interest won’t do.
So, here’s a thought: why does our promotion and relegation system have to look like everyone elses? Why not have 2 tiers of the A-league, with only the top tier competing for the Premiership, but all tiers competing for a chance at the dunny seat, and every team playing the other?
Lets say we settle at 22 teams, as Pippinu suggested, including some from SE Asia and NZ.
The top 14 teams play in tier 1, playing each other twice. They also play the 8 teams in teir 2 once (for a total of 36 matches). The winner of the league is the premier and places 1, 2 & 3 go into Asia. Places 1 – 5 go into the play-offs for the Dunny-Seat. The bottom 2 teams are demoted to tier 2 the next year. The winner of the Dunny-Seat or if already qualified, the runner-up for the Dunny-Seat or if already qualified, 4th place gets the last Asian spot.
The 8 teams in tier 2 play each other twice and the teams in tier 1 once (a total of 30 matches). The tier 2 premier is promoted and also takes the 6th spot in the play-offs for the Dunny-Seat. If the gap between 2nd and 3rd is 6+ points, the team coming 2nd is promoted, otherwise there is a play-off between 2nd and 3rd for promotion.
I think this system ticks all of the boxes. Tier 2 teams get to play for the Championship, and get visits from Tier 1 teams. There is a clear interest in them maintaining their standards and quality, and there is a clear reason to watch their games both in person and on TV. On the issue of salary caps, I’d only change them by the difference in the number of matches – i.e. Tier 2 gets 5/6th’s of the salary cap of Tier 1.
I’d be interested in everyone’s feedback on this system, which I have been bouncing around in my head for a while now.
Cheers
md
md said | August 11th 2009 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Sorry – my maths is slightly awry. Tier 1 would of course play 34 matches, not 36 – being 13 x 2 tier 1 matches, plus 8 matches against the tier 2 teams. Tier 2 would play 28 matches, being 7 x 2 tier 2 matches, plus 14 matches against the tier 1 teams.
Cheers
md
Towser said | August 11th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Whichever way you look at it, finance it some things are crystal clear in an Australian context based on the fact that their is historically no rusted on support as in Europe. Ie my club Wednesday kicked off their second tier Championship season with a 31000 crowd.
One is that a second division must be continuously financed on the basis that it may continuously lose money,therefore a benefactor or benefactors with deep pockets is essential. Secondly the second division must only accept clubs that or on a par with first division clubs both financially,administratively & on the pitch from a coaching & playing perspective or at least as Pippinu said just below regarding the salary cap. But I would see an equal salary cap being required in Australia in order that the second tier clubs could attract the same quality of players & coaches. Sponsorship & splitting of money from TV deals would be equal to the first division. When I mentioned benefactor I mean a source of revenue purely to support a second division & its lower crowd level. Unless its set up this way you end up like Wednesday slipping into the substream of the Premier league Jets & struggling to get on the plane. Australian clubs cant do that. Wednesday is part of my DNA even though I support the Roar it is not. On a personal level I know the difference.
Unless it is set up this way under these conditions it cannot work in Australia. Better just to steadily increase to say a maximum of 14 teams & stop there. It may stop more ACL places eventuating. If however the FFA is pressured by the AFC(in other words ordered indirectly with tones of we accepted you into our confederation,look at the benefits) there is no choice Frank Lowys Superranuation continuously supports a second division.