Comparing Culina and El Zorro

Roar Guru

By Pippinu, 25 Aug 2009 Pippinu is a Roar Guru

Tagged:: A-League, Carlos Hernandez, football, Jason Culina, Socceroos

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Gold Coast players react after Jason Culina scored in the 59th minute to put the Coast 2-0 up during the 1st round A-League football match between Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast United at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009. AAP Image/Dave Hunt

Three rounds into the fifth A-League season and few would deny that Socceroo star, Jason Culina, has been the man of the moment, representing everything fans have longed to see in the Australian competition.

It’s worthwhile recalling that in the latter part of last season, Carlos ‘El Zorro’ Hernandez was being viewed in a similar light, hailed by all as the best player in the league at the time.

Given that both have similar roles in their respective clubs, I thought it would be a bit of fun to do a comparison of each others’ skills (just for fun folks, it’s not signed in blood or anything).

Another interesting point of interest is that they appeared in their first World Cup in 2006 and are odds on to represent their respective countries in the 2010 World Cup.

I have chosen a list of 20 attributes with which I felt I was reasonably positioned to give a mark out of 10 for, with 10 representing best or close to best in the league, 9 excellent, 8 very good, 7 good, 6 reasonable, 5 passable, and so forth.

One word of warning, I said earlier that both play similar roles – but not identical roles. Culina has become a true play maker within Gold Coast United, in a formation that approximates a traditional 4-4-2.

While Hernandez occasionally played the same role last season, this season the Victory have played something closer to a 4-2-2-2, with two defensive mids, meaning Hernandez has floated in and out of wide positions and more central attacking positions in support of the two strikers.

As such, he hasn’t played a clear cut play maker role to date.

Attributes and scores, in no particular order (total = 200):

Culina / Hernandez

General athleticism:
9 / 6

Pace:
9 / 7

Fitness/stamina:
9 / 6

Balance:
8 / 9

Football smarts:
8 / 9

Reading the game:
8 / 9

Creativity/vision:
9 / 9

Work rate:
9 / 8

Off the ball:
8 / 9

Decision making:
9 / 9

Influence:
10 / 8

Set pieces:
8 / 10

Long shots:
8 / 9

Dribbling/ball control:
8 / 9

Passing:
9 / 9

Keeping possession in tight:
9 / 10

First touch:
9 / 9

Defensive duties:
8 / 6

Finishing:
8 / 8

Overall technique:
9 / 9

Total:
172 / 168

That looks like a fair outcome to me!

I’m happy to take questions on why I have marked them the way I have or to receive your comments for possible improvements in the gradings.

Also, let me know whether you would like to see this as a bit of a regular feature in relation to A-League players. Suggestions for future candidates to compare will be happily accepted.

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The Crowd Says (39) | Page 1 of Comments

David V. said | August 25th 2009 @ 1:54am | Report comment

Traditional 4-4-2? Bleiberg seems to have gone for a pre-Chapman 2 defender strategy, last used in the 1950s in Uruguay and possibly Austria.

Argentina and Uruguay were the last teams to espouse a pivotal attacking centre-half (who in effect became a holding midfielder), but the 2-3-5 morphed into the “metodo” 2-3-2-3 and ultimately to a 4-3-3. This is why the number “5″ in both countries denotes a holding midfielder, and why right-backs wore number 4!

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Pippinu said | August 25th 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment

I said it approximates a traditional 4-4-2, but Culina covers so much ground, and others around him are so mobile, that yeh, you could whack down any set of numbers to describe it if you wanted to.

As such, I marked Culina quite high for stamina, work rate and influence – this is essentially where he gets the marks over Carlos.

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- Realfootball said | August 25th 2009 @ 11:53am | Report comment
  
  In fact, GCU’s “total coverage” form of play may be closest to the Dutch Total Football teams of the 70s in terms of the mobility of their players and their frequent interchanges of position as they move into space.
  
  Agree, Pip, that you can pretty much paste any set of numbers in.
  
  Reply
  - DiCanio said | August 25th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
    
    Maybe some evidence of this positional switching, Dutch style total football would be nice
    
    For my money, its still the centre striker scoring most of the goals, the attacking midfielder delvering the final ball, and the centre backs clearing from their own third.
    
    Reply
AndyRoo said | August 25th 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment

In regards Culina to the technique sections I have no doubt if he was just given the Henandez free role he would score much better in that regard. But for the Gold Coast he often starts the movement quite deep and isn’t able to go forward all the time.

When he does get forward I think it’s because of his great football vision, in my mind it is much harder to be a defensive midfielder going forward (Culina) than just a pure AMC (Hernandez)

There both fantastic though.

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- DiCanio said | August 25th 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
  
  The reason he goes deep is that he picks up the slack of the rest of the midfield.
  
  He is essentially double or triple the player of any other GCU midfielder, being paid 10 times as much.
  
  Reply
whiskeymac said | August 25th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment

both great players and let’s hope the benchmark to be followed. I too wld edge Culina over Hernandez, if only because he is more versatile in the midfield (DM, CM or AM). the matchup when it happens wil be good watching. Gold coast to win though.

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- Pippinu said | August 25th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
  
  Whiskey
  good point about versatility – that shows up a bit in Culina’s ratings for defensive duties, work rate and fitness/stamina.
  
  Reply
Con Stamocostas said | August 25th 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment

This is one your best Pippinu, except i don’t think you mean it as comedy. I reckon you are serious.

My quick cap review.

Jason Culina-Footballer

Hernandez-Pie eater- Footballer-Pie eater.

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Pippinu said | August 25th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment

So Con – are you denigrating Carlos because he’s carrying a bit too much weight, and is not as fit or as athletic as Culina?

If not, please provide some more details!!

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- Con Stamocostas said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
  
  here are more details
  
  Culina -PSV- Champions League -Starting world cup player
  
  Hernandez – Melbourne Victory- Asian Champions League-Bench player
  
  You have presented a weak argument in a strong format.
  
  Reply
Realfootball said | August 25th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment

Hard to say who has more influence. Culina will give you influence on the play over a whole game, whereas Hernandez is the kind of player who often drifts out of play but then pops up to change the game with one of his wonderful finishes. Culina never drifts out of a game, but he also can’t finish like Hernandez.

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- Pippinu said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
  
  Realf
  What you say is correct – but I had to give Culina maximum points because, well, let’s be honest, he has been involved in everything in the first three games.
  
  Carlos is playing a slightly different role in a different formation, but anyway he doesn’t control proceedings the way Culina does.
  
  The other factor is that for so long, Carlos would have had Muskie’s influence overshadowing the whole team – Culina has that sort of leadership role within GCU.
  
  Reply
AndyRoo said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:34pm | Report comment

The fact he likes pie is a positive and should have been one of the catagories. The crowd love a little fat bloke

Reply
- DiCanio said | August 25th 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
  
  Maradonna.
  
  Pie Eater extrodinaire.
  
  Reply
Luke W said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment

Carlos hasn’t had the same impact this season and it is obviously because teams have realised how easy he is to man mark. How you scored him an 8 for workrate is beyond me, because I rarely see him in his own half, and this makes it very easy to man mark him. On the other hand, watching Culina, one minute he is in the defensive line cleaning up the scaps, the next he is out on the wing in space, the next he is up supporting Smeltz and Porter. It would take a marathon runner to man mark Culina!

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- Pippinu said | August 25th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
  
  Yes – gap of one in work rate is probably a little too generous towards Carlos.
  
  I gave Carlos an 8, rather than 7, which is what I was initially tossing up, because:
  1. he will press, and win plenty of ball from defenders who are a bit to slow getting it out of their own half;
  2. he blocks a fair amount of clearances for a slow bloke; and
  3. if the opposition is half asleep, he will bop up where least expected.
  
  Reply
Art Sapphire said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment

Pip – you forgot this category.

KFC set chicken pieces:

Culina 4/ Hernandez 10

Which makes it -

176 Culina – 178 Hernandez.

I declare Carlos the winner!

Anyway, all will be revealed on AFL grand final day when GCU host MVFC.

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