AFL trade rumours: Lever says no to Dogs, Martin still on the market

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    The home-and-away season is almost over for 2017, and at the end of next week ten clubs are officially going to turn to the business of building their 2018 lists.

    That means there’ll be plenty of action on the trade rumours front, and we are already seeing some hot gossip emerge.

    On Monday it was reported on that Jake Lever has officially ruled the Western Bulldogs out of the race for his services.

    Why is this the case? The Bulldogs were offering Lever as much as $800,000 a year for five years, an offer unlikely to be significantly beaten by anyone else.

    They also offer just as much if not more prospect of future success than really any other club in Victoria.

    Reportedly, the Dogs have grown a bit tired of waiting for Lever to make a decision, which if the Crows have an extended finals campaign, seems unlikely to come until October.

    In addition to this, they seem to have fallen behind another suitor – it’s not clear who – and probably were not interested in waiting six weeks to hear “no”.

    I suspect the Bulldogs perhaps asked Lever to give them a final yes or no answer here and now, and without being able to give them a yes, it had to be a no.

    So who is that other suitor? It seems like the race is down to two – Melbourne or Collingwood.

    St Kilda, North Melbourne and Hawthorn have all been mentioned at various times in discussion of Lever, but the Saints and Roos not for a while, and the Hawks very little.

    There were reports a little while ago that Lever met with Melbourne personally, although this was later denied by him.

    Still, my own personal gut feel now would be that Lever will be playing for the Demons next year.

    Jake Lever Adelaide Crows AFL 2016

    (AAP Image/Ben Macmahon)

    There has been some interesting twists and turns in the Dustin Martin story in the past few weeks, and his future at the moment is still unclear.

    While most commentators – myself included – have long believed Martin was more likely to re-sign with Richmond than any other choice, there’s some debate about that now.

    It seems to be the case that Richmond and North Melbourne are in a bidding war for his services, and the Kangaroos have plenty to spend.

    The numbers are different depending on who you ask, but North are said to be offering as much as a seven-year deal worth $1.5 million, and could have as much as $2 million to spend if their pursuit of Josh Kelly falls short.

    Richmond are likely to match that length of deal but presumably cannot fit a wage that big into their salary cap given they’re already accomodating stars like Trent Cotchin, Alex Rance, Jack Riewoldt and recent recruit Dion Prestia.

    The largest offer that’s been floated in the media as supposedly coming from them is $1.2 million. That’s still a hefty sum of money, but over the life of the deal the difference is as much as $2 million in the bank.

    There’s also been rumour lately that Martin has met with North Melbourne’s leadership group, and that North Melbourne are meeting with his father in New Zealand, although the latter has been hotly denied by the Kangaroos.

    It has also been reported that it is in fact Dustin and his manager going to visit his father in New Zealand before finals. That seems more likely to be true.

    Hard to say how this one is going to turn out, but perhaps the more interesting debate at the moment is whether or not $1.5 million is a reasonable amount to spend on Dustin Martin, or any one player for that matter.

    From my perspective as a North fan, the answer is a hard yes – elite talents like Martin are hard to find and fortune favours the bold. Particularly if you can get someone of his quality as a free agent, it’s worth spending a little extra.

    Dustin Martin Richmond Tigers AFL 2017

    (AAP Image/Julian Smith)

    Much of the speculation about Dustin Martin has come off the back of talk that North Melbourne at least are turning their focus away from Josh Kelly.

    His future is probably the hardest to puzzle out of any of the big names on the market right now, as there are so many conflicting stories going around.

    One week everyone is saying that he’s gone, looking for big money in Victoria and would surely have re-signed by now if that’s what he was going to do.

    The next, we’re back to talking about how he’ll likely take a two-year deal at GWS and then reassess his options at the end of 2019.

    There’s also been chatter lately that Essendon are a late entry in the race for his services – and perhaps that explains a bit of why David Zaharakis is still yet to sign a new deal.

    On top of that there’s debate about what kind of deal North are offering him. Is it still nine million over nine years? Or is it up to ten million now? Or is it $7.5 million over five?

    The honest answer is that we’re all a little blind here and probably no one is really sure of what Kelly will do, perhaps not even Kelly himself.

    What is clear though is that Kelly is the lynchpin in GWS’ off-season and what he decides to do is going to shape everything else they get done.

    Devon Smith is their other out-of-contract star and it seems increasingly likely that the Giants will keep one and lose the other.

    Their preference is to keep Kelly, so they’re presumably waiting on a final decision for him before they opt to either sign Smith or let him go.

    Of course, if they wait too long, they risk him becoming disgruntled, and they lose both.

    Josh Kelly GWS Giants AFL 2017

    (Photo by Cameron Spencer/Getty Images)

    The future of Charlie Cameron has been in the news lately, after coaches Chris Fagan and Don Pyke had a public back and forth about the rumours Brisbane are after him.

    Cameron is contracted from 2018 and based on Pyke’s comments, Adelaide are looking to hold him to that, but it does seem more and more likely he’ll request a trade regardless.

    If he does then Brisbane are going to have to pay a high price, assuming the Crows are willing to budge at all, but it’s worth it – Cameron has a rare mix of valuable attributes and has proven he can play at an elite level.

    It’s not hard to understand why Adelaide are getting a bit testy, though. The way things are going they could lose all of Cameron, Lever, and Mitch McGovern this season.

    That’s got to be a bit frustrating as the club couldn’t be doing any more to provide them with the prospect of future success and presumably has reasonable financial offers in front of all of them.

    It’d be a disappointing result to lose all three but it would also leave them with plenty of cash and as many as four first round draft picks to burn.

    I’m sure if they hit the market and go shopping they can find some elite replacements who would kill to be part of a team that is going to be in the flag conversation regularly over the next few years.

    Perhaps Bryce Gibbs is still one of those – two first-round picks for him might sound more feasible if they’d still have two left over.

    As for the brief debate that was had last week about the Fagan-Pyke comments, there really is no winner in a contest like this.

    The key thing to remember is that Chris Fagan doesn’t wake up one morning thinking “I’m going to talk about Charlie Cameron today” – he gets asked a question at a presser and he answers it, but it doesn’t get reported that way.

    Pyke’s response about Cameron being under contract rang a bit hollow obviously given Adelaide’s own pursuit of contracted Gibbs last year.

    Of course, there wasn’t any public comments made about Gibbs by anyone at Adelaide while the season was still in progress, so one could argue that’s where the moral difference lies.

    The simple answer would be for Fagan to instead say “Out of respect to Adelaide, I won’t comment on one of their players while they’re preparing for a finals campaign.”

    The even simpler answer would be for everyone to just chill a little and accept that this a bothersome but unavoidable part of the league, and everyone is going to wind up on both sides of the conversation sooner or later.

    Charlie Cameron Adelaide Crows Showdown AFL 2015

    (AAP Image/Ben Macmahon)

    A few smaller fish just to close things out:

    Jarrad McVeigh looks likely to play on at another club next year, Sam Mitchell-style. He wants to play on but it doesn’t seem likely that Sydney will give him another deal.

    Being an unrestricted free agent, that likely leads him to take up a one-year deal at a Victorian club that will transition into a coaching position.

    Essendon and Carlton are the two clubs who’ve been mentioned as keen so far, but you’d expect others will give it some thought too.

    Brandon Matera looks certain to leave Gold Coast, the only question is where to – a return home to Western Australia is an obvious possibility, though it is said Fremantle, rather than West Coast (where his uncle Peter played), are most interested.

    Don’t be surprised if that changes though, West Coast are interested in a small forward and there aren’t that many options available. Matera is also reportedly open to a move to Victoria, and there may be some clubs there who’d offer him a deal.

    19-game Bulldog Lukas Webb is also looking likely to move elsewhere at the end of the season.

    He is out of contract at the end of 2017 and despite strong VFL form has had only limited opportunities this year.

    That said, perhaps the retirement of some backline veterans like Bob Murphy, Matthew Boyd and Dale Morris will open that door for him.

    If it does, he might still be convinced to remain with the Dogs.

    Josh Elliott
    Josh Elliott

    Josh Elliott may be The Roar's Weekend Editor, but at heart he's just a rusted-on North Melbourne tragic with a penchant for pun headlines - and also abnormal alliteration, assuredly; assuming achievability. He once finished third in a hot chilli pie eating contest. You can follow him on Twitter @JoshElliott_29 and listen to him on The Roar's AFL Podcast.

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    The Crowd Says (192)

    • August 22nd 2017 @ 10:40am
      Rissole said | August 22nd 2017 @ 10:40am | ! Report

      Essendon could really use a clearance and contested machine that kicks goals like Josh Kelly. I just can’t see what we could offer them that would satisfy a trade.
      Our list is quite old this year, but with Watson, Kelly, Stanton and maybe Hocking retiring the profile should become much younger, maybe we could afford this year’s and next year’s first round picks but it’s a big risk to take.

    • August 22nd 2017 @ 10:47am
      Brian said | August 22nd 2017 @ 10:47am | ! Report

      There used to be a veterens cap to prevent the Sam Mitchell, McVeigh type situation. It seemed to work well was there ever an explanation as why they go trid of it?

      • Roar Guru

        August 22nd 2017 @ 10:53am
        Cat said | August 22nd 2017 @ 10:53am | ! Report

        Because it was unequal. A team with 5 veterans would in effect have a larger salary cap than a team with 1.

        • Roar Guru

          August 22nd 2017 @ 11:43am
          Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 11:43am | ! Report

          I preferred that system though. It rewarded clubs who were prepared to hang on to their veterans and it rewarded players who had been loyal. But most of all, it rewarded the supporters of those clubs. Like the father-son rules, I reckon it’s good for football, even if it gives some clubs an advantage periodically.

    • August 22nd 2017 @ 10:55am
      Swannies said | August 22nd 2017 @ 10:55am | ! Report

      Martin and Kelly will stay where they are.

      • Roar Guru

        August 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm
        XI said | August 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

        I agree. I can’t see why either would leave right now. Martin can make bank while possibly being a key player in Richmond’s first flag in decades, while Kelly could win a flag within the next couple of seasons at GWS and then get paid. Going to North now just seems like getting paid a lot to go through a club building process like the one the Giants have just finished

      • August 23rd 2017 @ 7:42am
        David C said | August 23rd 2017 @ 7:42am | ! Report

        I just can’t get my head around Dusty running around not in Richmond colours. It just wouldn’t look right. Think they both stay.

    • August 22nd 2017 @ 11:41am
      I ate pies said | August 22nd 2017 @ 11:41am | ! Report

      No Lever is good news for the dogs. They don’t really need more of his type; they need someone who can stop the big boys. That someone is Roughead. What they actually need is a proper ruckman so that Roughead can go back to the backline.

      • August 22nd 2017 @ 12:17pm
        Jermayn said | August 22nd 2017 @ 12:17pm | ! Report


        • August 23rd 2017 @ 7:43am
          David C said | August 23rd 2017 @ 7:43am | ! Report

          or Cox?

      • August 22nd 2017 @ 12:29pm
        Birdman said | August 22nd 2017 @ 12:29pm | ! Report

        surely it’s the forward line that needs sorting out at Whitten Oval as well?

        • August 22nd 2017 @ 1:20pm
          Pedro The Fisherman said | August 22nd 2017 @ 1:20pm | ! Report

          Yes – If Cloke is a high option then the forward line is in real trouble.

          • August 23rd 2017 @ 6:28am
            Mattyb said | August 23rd 2017 @ 6:28am | ! Report

            I’ve heard it’s Tippett that the dogs are after. The deal seems to involve taking his whole salary at a discounted trade.
            Carlton are linked to Redpath as a Casboult replacement. Money’s not big but the dogs are unwilling at this stage to offer more than one year due to his knees. I also believe it’s Carlton who are linked to McVeigh,surprised Josh mentioned the player but didn’t link it to a club.

            • August 23rd 2017 @ 8:43am
              Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 8:43am | ! Report

              Tippet is the same player as Cloke – play 2 good games each year and the rest are cr*p having the fans baying for blood.
              Carlton would be a big winner of they could engineer a trade of Redpath in for Casboult!

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 3:58pm
                Mattyb said | August 23rd 2017 @ 3:58pm | ! Report

                Pedro,Casboult goes to Richmond or Collingwood but the deal is more about getting a high pick for Casboult via compensation and spending low on Redpath.
                Redpaths not overly good,he’s slow and o bit of a one trick pony. Good kick though.

                And yeah,I’m not big on getting Tippett it’s just the player I hear the dogs are after. They need a ruckman to fill the void until English is ready. Tippett does seem the type of ruckman Beveridge is into.
                Goldstein might have many personal issues,the dogs have spoken to Cox,not that that means much,I certainly don’t want him,but the dogs seem to be in the market for a ruckman.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:08pm
                Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:08pm | ! Report

                I doubt that Casboult warrants a high pick in return for his transfer. Late 2nd Round if you are feeling generous. Good mark, poor kick. Inconsistent and not always at high intensity.
                As previously mentioned, Tippet plays 2-3 good games a year and spends a lot of time in the 2nds and/or injured. Low value for money there. Surely someone like Lobbe from Port would be a better bet for a year or 2 (Is about 26/27, has heart and is an OK ruckman – pushed out of Port’s side by Ryder and developing youngsters. Probably plays 1st Ruck in half the other teams in the comp).

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:12pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:12pm | ! Report

                Pedro – The draft pick the blues receive isn’t based on ability but contract – the blues will offer Casboult a contract that is big enough to ensure that if someone beats it and he leaves they will get an end of first round/start of second round pick.

                It should also be noted that of all the players to have over 100 hit outs this year Casboult is far and away the highest goal scorer (a couple of weeks back it was 29 to Casboult and the next best was 17 – Casboult has kicked 4 more goals since then)

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:23pm
                Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:23pm | ! Report

                What if he accepts Carlton’s offer? Carlton then have to keep him.
                As he is unrestricted (not restricted) he can also go wherever he wants regardless of Carlton’s “contract offer”. Any compensation would be determined by the size and length of any contract he actually accepts (not what Carlton want to put on the table).

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:28pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:28pm | ! Report

                If he accepts Carlton’s offer the blues are happy because without him their forward line only has 3rd year players as marking targets.

                Casboult isn’t unhappy with Carlton and he supported the blues as a kid – he only leaves if someone offers him a bigger and better contract than the blues – he isn’t going to leave for less money and a shorter contract.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:47pm
                Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:47pm | ! Report

                Carlton should cut their losses and get rid of Casboult (and take whatever is offered). Use Charlie Curnow as the go to forward and build a forward structure around him.
                Much better prospect

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:52pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                So does Charlie Curnow do the back up ruckwork?

                And given the blues like the idea of Curnow running through the middle who supports McKay as the tall forward then?

                And given Casboult is our leading goal kicker what are these losses you talk about?

                It makes much more sense to keep Casboult and let him take the biggest defender until our young blokes develop or if we can’t keep him, make sure we get the best possible compo.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 5:11pm
                Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:11pm | ! Report

                Didn’t think Carlton needed a back-up ruckman with that dynamo Kruezer playing there but perhaps they should look at someone like Jackson Trengove from Port (he will be a restricted free agent as is a much better utility option than Casboult)!

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 5:17pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:17pm | ! Report

                So Trengrove is just 6 months younger than Casboult, 4cm and 6kg smaller this season is averaging 3.3 marks compared to Casboult’s 5.5, averages 7.8 hits outs to Casboults 7.2 and just 0.9 goals compares to 1.6 – that is better?

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 5:35pm
                Pedro The Fisherman said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:35pm | ! Report

                Yep – Trengove is a much better footballer than Casboult … and he is playing in a winning team (compared to Carlton).
                He plays forward, back and in the ruck. I am pretty sure he knows how to mix the cordial as well.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 7:36pm
                Mattyb said | August 23rd 2017 @ 7:36pm | ! Report

                Pedro,Macca is right,the Casboult pick is based around compensation not ability. Carlton have offered him a contract but they are chasing the competition pick,it could be something around the 20’s which is very inviting,especially when you consider they are heavily into Redpath which would cost a third or fourth round pick.

                McVeigh is definatly linked to Carlton. Josh has mentioned the rumour and like I said I’m surprised he didn’t mention a club. Let’s be honest,there wouldn’t be multiple clubs chasing him. Carlton did recruit Palmer and Silvagni last year,their recruiting policy shows they are combining the now with the future,for multiple reasons.
                Bolton is far from safe,and for those reasons he is going to want to bring his own people into the club. I know Barker is highly rated outside but I doubt he remains at Carlton much longer.

              • August 24th 2017 @ 9:25am
                Macca said | August 24th 2017 @ 9:25am | ! Report

                “Carlton did recruit Palmer and Silvagni last year” That is true, but let’s look at why?
                – they took Palmer to get GWS some salary cap relief which helped the blues secure Pickett and Marchbank – does the blues taking McVeigh help in a similar situation?

                – they took Silvagni as a rookie and it was to provide some experience and depth for a team with 3 key defenders aged 19, 20 and 22 (Weitering, Marchbank & Plowman) – will McVeigh get to the rookie draft? Will he be happy to go on to the rookie list? Do the blues need more experience and depth in the half back flank dept given they have Simpson and Docherty?

                McVeigh is much more likely to end up at a Melbourne or St Kilda – a team likely to be contending next year rather than the blues where he doesn’t fit their needs and they don’t fit his.

                As for Bolton being far from safe – get your hand off it.

              • Roar Guru

                August 24th 2017 @ 9:37am
                Col from Brissie said | August 24th 2017 @ 9:37am | ! Report

                John Barker and Carlton have recently agreed to a two year contract extension. The only reason Barker leaves Carlton is if he gets the senior role at the Gold Coast or somewhere else.

              • August 24th 2017 @ 9:38am
                Macca said | August 24th 2017 @ 9:38am | ! Report

                And the blues have just signed Bruce as an assistant.

              • August 24th 2017 @ 10:12am
                Macca said | August 24th 2017 @ 10:12am | ! Report

                Don – “Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Pearce, Grey, Apeness.” “These are the boys who set our season back on track.”

                Apeness 2017 games = 0
                Pearce 2017 games = 0

                They really set your season back on track?

              • August 24th 2017 @ 11:24am
                Don Freo said | August 24th 2017 @ 11:24am | ! Report

                Ooh!…once again, you left people off that list. There were 6. Give it up Macca, you are being silly.

              • August 24th 2017 @ 11:37am
                Macca said | August 24th 2017 @ 11:37am | ! Report

                I am being silly, you are the one constantly changing the paremeters and making stuff up.

                I didn’t leave “them off the list” – I highlighted 2 players that shouldn’t have been on the list to begin with because the didn’t “set our season back on track.” because they haven’t played.

                So to recap – Fremantles list is older and more experienced than the blues. The team Fremantle put out on the park “on the weekend” was older and more experienced than the blues team on the weekend and performed far worse and Freo have 4 injured players with under 50 games experience who have contributed to the teams performance this year but didn’t play “on the weekend” while the blues have 5.

                Whichever way you look at it or try to manipulate it Don – the answer still comes out the same, Fremantle aren’t less experienced than the blues – and the size of Freo’s losses and the number of games won in the last 2 years makes the “performed better” side of things questionable at best.

            • August 23rd 2017 @ 9:09am
              Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 9:09am | ! Report

              Carlton are linked to McVeigh? They blues have Docherty, Byrne & Williamson with a decade in front of them playing the rebounding back flanker role plus they have Simpson. Why would they go after a 32 year old?

              And why would McVeigh go to a club that isn’t going to be competing for finals next year?

              The only possible reason would be a coaching job post his playing career but the blues just signed Bruce yesterday which makes it less likely.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 10:05am
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 10:05am | ! Report

                Probably getting a range of candidates in place to replace Bolton.

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 11:33am
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 11:33am | ! Report

                Why are they replacing Bolton Don or have you heard that Freo are chasing him to replace Lyon?

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 11:39am
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 11:39am | ! Report

                Freo needs someone to bring on the next G. That’s Rossie. 2 more wins than Bolton with a less experienced team. Brendon looks earmarked to be an assistant in Tassie at his current rate.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:52pm
                Kane said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:52pm | ! Report

                You can keep Rossie, one of the most over-rated coaches to ever coach the game. Been coaching the same team for what, 6-7 years and gets 2 100 plus point flogging’s 2 weeks in a row? He’s all yours

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 12:01pm
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 12:01pm | ! Report

                Bolton’s coached 44 games for 13 wins with the biggest loss being 71 points. Over the same period Lyon has 12 wins with 9 losses bigger than Carltons including 3 by 100 points.

                His rate seems to be better than Rossies over the last 2 seasons.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 12:57pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 12:57pm | ! Report

                And still they don’t win as many games.

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 12:17pm
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 12:17pm | ! Report

                A less experienced team?

                At the start of the season Carltons average age was 23y 299d, Freos was 24y 219d. Average games experience was Carlton 53 and Freo 67. Carlton had 11 teenagers on their list as opposed to Fremantles 5 and 2 players over 30 against Fremantles 7.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 12:59pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 12:59pm | ! Report

                Team…not squad. The old blokes are not playing. * players under 20 games on the weekend.
                !5 under 50. Match that.

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 2:17pm
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 2:17pm | ! Report

                Gee Don, as far as I can see Freo had 12 players with less than 50 games, Carlton only had 11.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 2:33pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 2:33pm | ! Report

                You’re not looking.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 2:20pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 2:20pm | ! Report

                Don – it is a bit hard to match not knowing how many “*” or “!5” is but on the weekend the blues had 11 players with less than 50 games, 6 players taken in the last 2 drafts aged 20 or under and 5 players with less than 20 games experience.

                Now “on the weekend” Fremantle got beaten by 104 points (again) and the blues won by 7.

                So “on the weekend” Fremantle may have been the least experienced of the 2 but they performed far worse.

                You can’t argue that over the season Freo have performed better but not take the age and experience over the season (ie the squad).

                Also what ages are these inexperienced players for Freo? It is one thing to have played less than 50 games and be 19, it is another to have played less than 50 games and be 23 – time in the system is an advantage.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:41pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:41pm | ! Report

                “You’re not looking” This isn’t like the time you said Freo had more players under 23 and it turned out a lot of them were actually 24 is it?

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 5:09pm
                Macca said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:09pm | ! Report

                Col/Don – here is the list I have of Freo players under 50 games from this weekends game (there may be a late change I have missed Col because I only see 11)

                Nyhuis 4 games, 20 years old
                Hamiling 44, 24
                McCarthy 40, 22
                Weller 46, 21
                Tucker 30, 20
                Hughes 23, 22
                Logue 13, 19
                Cox 13, 19
                Ryan 10, 21
                Deluca 4, 21
                Darcy 8, 19

                Interestingly only 3 are teenagers and another 2 20 year olds

                Not sure that the blues have “more experience”

                On the Carlton side;
                Williamson 14, 18
                Fisher 16, 19
                SPS 19, 19
                Silvagni 28,19
                Weitering 41, 19
                Curnow 26, 20
                Pickett 9, 21
                Byrne 14, 22
                Bokehorst 24, 23
                Smedts 46, 25
                Lamb 47, 24

                So 5 teenagers (including an 18 year old) plus 1 20 year old –

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 5:55pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:55pm | ! Report

                Oh…look who you missed out!

                Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Pearce, Grey, Apeness. Do you know why they didn’t play on Sunday? They would all be in the best 25 (apart from Grey).

                Doesn’t suit your argument? Must be why you left them out.

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 5:30pm
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 5:30pm | ! Report

                My mistake Macca, for some reason I included Bennell forgetting that he played over 50 games at the Gold Coast.

                Don if I am not looking please direct me to where I should be looking?

              • Roar Guru

                August 23rd 2017 @ 6:21pm
                Col from Brissie said | August 23rd 2017 @ 6:21pm | ! Report

                Don says “teams not squad” and now wants to include players who didn’t play on the weekend. They weren’t included because you referred to the game on the weekend.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 6:26pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 6:26pm | ! Report

                These are the boys who set our season back on track. The team. It does not include those who contribute to average age…Dawson, Ibbotson. Griffin and Pearce are only there when we have run out of players.

                You are funning a losing argument. Win 8 games and then argue you are doing better than Freo’s youth.

              • August 24th 2017 @ 9:12am
                Macca said | August 24th 2017 @ 9:12am | ! Report

                Don – “Team…not squad. The old blokes are not playing. * players under 20 games on the weekend” but we missed “Blakely, Langdon, Balic, Pearce, Grey, Apeness” who didn’t play on the weekend? Are you serious?

                We also missed Polson, McKay, Cuningham, Phillips & Marchbank all who have played this year for the blues but are currently injured.

                As for the argument you originally stated – ” 2 more wins than Bolton with a less experienced team” – we proved Carlton’s list is much less experienced than Fremantles.

                You then said ” “Team…not squad” where we proved that both the weekend’s team was not only more experienced but didn’t perform better.

                Now you are simply saying we won 8 games so we are better? Col has already pointed out that over the last 2 years the blues have won more games, he also pointed out that you have had 9 losses over 12 goals to the blues 0 in that period (including two 104 point beltings in the last 2 weeks) and I showed that you not only have been scored against considerably more this year you have scored less than the blues as well – you clearly aren’t performing better.

        • Roar Guru

          August 22nd 2017 @ 3:34pm
          Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 3:34pm | ! Report

          Tom Boyd, at the age of 21, had to play a lone hand in the unfamiliar role of ruck most of the season before Roughead finally returned from injury, and then Boyd was absent. Stringer started the year well, but then twisted his knee, then did his hamstring and has now done his hamstring again, so his year became a train-wreck. Tory Dickson missed the pre-season then re-injured himself several times throughout the year and has consequently spent the whole season lacking fitness. Crameri has virtually missed the whole year again and may never return to the player he was. Clay Smith missed quite a few with injury but has also strangely lacked form. Redpath missed the first half of the year returning from a knee reconstruction and showed some promise at times when he played, but has now missed through suspension twice. Cloke was only ever a back-up option and he succumbed to mental illness. I’m not listing these as excuses, merely pointing out that if we were to enjoy a more normal club run with injuries, we would have a much better idea of how good or poor we are. I think our forward line will be fine next year if we can keep Boyd and Stringer in particular on the park in the forward line.

          We need Marcus Adams playing for a full year and a player to replace Hambling – Lever would be ideal. Lewis Young is the youngest player in the AFL and showed a great future. We also need a new Ruck, or Tom Campbell to avoid injury and have a serviceable year while Tim English develops.

          • August 22nd 2017 @ 7:15pm
            I ate pies said | August 22nd 2017 @ 7:15pm | ! Report

            That’s about it Pumping. I’m assuming Boyd will be fit and play in the forward line, probably changing onto the ball. Goldstein would be a great pick up

            • August 22nd 2017 @ 8:58pm
              Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 8:58pm | ! Report

              Goldstein was very poor this year and is only getting older. I don’t want him. I’d prefer we recruit someone aggressive and strong like Mummy – and get him to hurt Toby Greene.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 1:16pm
                Gecko said | August 23rd 2017 @ 1:16pm | ! Report

                Or recruit Toby Greene and get him to snipe Mumford.

          • August 22nd 2017 @ 7:37pm
            Don Freo said | August 22nd 2017 @ 7:37pm | ! Report

            You might go for Sam Collins. Hopefully he will step up after Johnno at Freo but that is asking him to be patient.

            If you’re not using Tom Boyd, we’ll swap him for Sam…but you have to pay half of Tom’s pocket money.

            • August 22nd 2017 @ 8:54pm
              Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 8:54pm | ! Report

              Sam Collins would be a good speculative recruit if he could get his body right. But I don’t think his market value would be very high now Don. We’ll give you a late 2nd round pick for him at best.

              • August 22nd 2017 @ 9:19pm
                Don Freo said | August 22nd 2017 @ 9:19pm | ! Report

                His body’s ok and has played all season. He has taken over 10 marks most games. Unfortunately for him, Johnno and Hamling has been 2 of the consistent performers so he had to wait for injury. They may have been the only 2 not injured.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 10:33pm
                rusty said | August 23rd 2017 @ 10:33pm | ! Report

                Collins is slow. Really slow.

              • August 23rd 2017 @ 11:40pm
                Don Freo said | August 23rd 2017 @ 11:40pm | ! Report

                Doesn’t matter how slow you are if you mark the ball every time it comes down. Brian Lake, Jake Carlisle, Daniel Talia, Heath Grundy, Scott Thompson…

          • August 23rd 2017 @ 9:32pm
            Mark said | August 23rd 2017 @ 9:32pm | ! Report


      • August 23rd 2017 @ 12:29pm
        Gecko said | August 23rd 2017 @ 12:29pm | ! Report

        Agreed. Roughead is a reliable full back. Shouldn’t be that difficult for Bulldogs to find a ruck to replace him.

        Probably best if they find a flexible ruck – one like Cox who can play up forward if Tom Boyd ends up playing the number 1 ruck role.

      • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:07pm
        Mattyb said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:07pm | ! Report

        IAP,I somewhat agree. I wouldn’t mind Lever if cheap but he won’t be. Your right,intercept defenders is probably the strongest area on our list. I’m not convinced about Roughead in defence as he’s a bit slow,but he’s an option.
        The dogs need a lock down defender,ruckman,some pace in the midfield,a medium forward with goal sense and a small forward before we need another medium sized intercept defender.
        We have players coming through in some of these areas,but they’ll take time. A small forward would be really handy. I’d love us to have a look at a kid called Ryan from Subiaco in the WAFL. He might need to improve his fitness but he’s a huge talent.

      • August 23rd 2017 @ 4:44pm
        GJ said | August 23rd 2017 @ 4:44pm | ! Report

        Lever looks more important to the WB’s than he probably is when you have 6 of last years premiership defenders sitting in the stands watching games.

    • Roar Guru

      August 22nd 2017 @ 11:45am
      Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 11:45am | ! Report

      Brian Taylor was quite emphatic on Talking Footy that Lever and his management had not said ‘No’ to the Bulldogs and that it had been reported incorrectly. Did Brad Hardie start that story?

      If the Bulldogs have demanded an answer now, then presumably that indicates they have a second option they would like to target, i.e. another backman from somewhere. Otherwise, why wouldn’t they wait till Adelaide’s season is finished for an answer?

      • August 22nd 2017 @ 12:20pm
        Jermayn said | August 22nd 2017 @ 12:20pm | ! Report

        West Coast have Schofield and McKenzie who surely can live without one of them and would come cheap. Maybe age is an issue though.

        • Roar Guru

          August 22nd 2017 @ 2:32pm
          Pumping Dougie said | August 22nd 2017 @ 2:32pm | ! Report

          Hopefully Marcus Adams can play a whole season without his feet giving him trouble. McKenzie would be worse than Fletcher Roberts, who can’t get a game (at the expense of the youngest player in the AFL and currently the skinniest key position player – Lewis Young). Aiden Corr or Michael Hartley would be a smart trade for the Dogs, if we can’t get Lever.

      • August 22nd 2017 @ 12:46pm
        GJ said | August 22nd 2017 @ 12:46pm | ! Report

        Yes – BT seems to be neck deep in the Lever “affair”. I know Jake comes from the same town as where BT’s living now and knows the family.

        Not sure how much media attention his potential trade is getting in Melbourne, particularly in comparison to say Dustin Martin or Josh Kelly. But damn, getting a sick of hearing about it constantly in media here in Adelaide.

        There has been talk of Essendon also showing interest in him in the background here as well.

      • August 22nd 2017 @ 4:21pm
        Ditto said | August 22nd 2017 @ 4:21pm | ! Report

        Yes, I think you’re right. I think the Bulldogs have rethought that deal.

    • August 22nd 2017 @ 12:23pm
      Slane said | August 22nd 2017 @ 12:23pm | ! Report

      I was talking to a friend close to Dustin Martin earlier today. He told me that North Melbourne are offering Dusty over $5mil more than what Richmond are. Hard to say no to that kind of money.

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