Roar Rookie
Joined July 2019
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Spot on Matthew. Expansion is more than a one hour drive to Gosford.
The tale of the NRL's two neglected cities
I agree. Essentially, the Central Coast would be another Sydney team. Gosford is the same distance as Penrith from the Sydney CBD. Perth offers a new market for TV broadcasters and sponsorship exposure.
The tale of the NRL's two neglected cities
17 games? Are you serious?
What would Channel 9 and Fox do about losing 30% of the regular season content? They would cut the TV money by that same percentage.
Let’s see what the elite players would say about a massive pay cut.
The tale of the NRL's two neglected cities
Expansion is an issue that the league is luke warm on for a number of reasons. I wrote an article on this last week:
Ultimately, the decision if/when a new city or region gets a team in to the competition will be made on which is the most value-adding. The NRL would consider broadcasters, sponsorship and financial viability I would imagine in their decision.
Unfortunately for the Central Coast, the NRL does not gain anything from a team in Gosford. The area already has a large audience watching NRL on Fox and Channel 9. People up there already have a team outside of the region they would follow through broadcasters. It is also only 50 minutes drive up the F3 from nine Sydney clubs and there are bigger fish to fry in Perth and Queensland.
History tells us that regions struggle. Look at Illawarra. The Illawarra region is bigger than the Central Coast and it couldn’t sustain a team on its own. The Gold Coast, Newcastle and Macarthur areas have all had their fair share of failures and struggles as well.
I think that you are wrong about the Sydney crowd problem. The real issue with crowds is scheduling and the game day experience for the pricetag. Sydney is an afternoon sporting market. Night matches on Thursday, Friday and Saturday notoriously attract terrible Sydney crowds because there are other things to do in Sydney at those times that doesn’t involve freezing in 9 degrees weather. On the other hand, many people object to paying the price to watch live footy either at dilapidated suburban grounds or on the other side of the city, especially considering the amount of commuting the average Sydneyside does Monday to Friday.
The tale of the NRL's two neglected cities
Liquorbox, a very good point about broadcasters not accepting of it, if there was no NRL presence in Brisbane as a consequence.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Max Power,
Another comment on yet another forum from you with no substance to justify the statement.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Greg,
I agree 100%. I highlighted this in the article as a key factor.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Well Adam, when you look at the PROS and CONS of an issue, that’s the idea! 50/50 treatment!
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Adam Bagnall,
If you actually read the article properly before insulting me, you would have read that the points you make are exactly what I say are prohibitive factors in promotion-relegation! Where in this article am I advocating for, or endorsing a promotion-relegation system?
What is “poorly thought out” is your I’ll-conceived feedback. But I should not expect anything less from someone who thinks State of Origin is bad for rugby league.
Go and learn how to read and comprehend texts properly before you take aim at me.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
My dad used to talk about the VFA (he was from Melbourne originally). He said it rivalled the old VFL for quality.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Promotion-relegation hasn’t been tried for a national top-flight competition to my knowledge?
Was the old VFL before the nationalisation a promotion-relegation competition? I didn’t know that admittedly.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
Hi Matth,
First of all, I am not advocating or proposing the model in this article, or any promotion-relegation model for that matter. Just purely looking at the pros and cons of promotion-relegation with the model that seems to be thrown around in discussions. I will try to answer your questions:
1. Top level clubs release or loan players to lower tier clubs in European football and the Super League for a fee all the time. For example, Penrith might release or lend a back rower not being used at the moment to a club in the second tier in exchange for a transfer fee, or loan fee. Seeing that there are currently 16 teams in the NRL, if the NRL was to be reduced to 12, players at relegated clubs may seek a release or transfer to stay in the NRL with another club. This would force players out of clubs and facilitate player movement between NRL clubs and second tier competition clubs.
2. Very good question. These arrangements would be disbanded. For example, you would imagine that some of the big clubs in the NSW and Qld Cups would want to try to get into the NRL. The existing arrangements change almost on a year to year basis. Newtown for example, have been a feeder club to many different NRL clubs over the years.
3. The example used in the article was national, possibly with an international presence.
4. Yes. It would have to be fully professional with a lower cap than the NRL. The NRL would need to redirect revenue from the NRL to subsidise the second tier competition for it to work. I agree that this kind of funding arrangement would create a dogfight between the NRL and its clubs.
5. Regarding travel and accomodation for traveling teams, the NRL could find an official airline and hotel to sponsor the cost of all 24 teams. This is what Toronto Wolfpack have in place in the British competition. Toronto pay for the travel and accomodation of British clubs through a sponsorship arrangement.
6. Very good question. I mentioned this problem in the article. The relegation of the Warriors or Melbourne or the Gold Coast would kill those clubs and subsequently, rugby league in those places. I guess any promotion-relegation model would need to have immunity from relegation for strategically important clubs.
Could the NRL survive promotion and relegation?
No worries Mushi… let me know how year 5 is going.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Yes, true. Also, what is of interest is the loss that Foxtel continues, whether this influences the amount they can offer for the rights and if any of the streaming services (ie. netflix, amazon, stan etc) are interested in spreading their platforms to include live sport in the next five years.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Madmax, what is laughable is your feedback:
1. “Your Pros & Cons are laughable & your reasoning shows lack of rugby league knowledge & it’s origins”.
So, the NRL did not spawn from a Sydney competition? Are the “origins” of Rugby League competition in Australia not a suburban based competition in Sydney? If it did not, please enlighten us with your superior knowledge in this area.
2. “What have the Bears achieved since their inception? ZERO! What have Manly & the Tigers achieved…….a hell of a lot more & will continue to do so”
Who mentioned anything about the Bears? Where did this article criticise the other two clubs achievements?
3. “Expansion of rugby league your way will spell the end of the sport!”
I ended my article with stating that I do not have the answers to successfully expand the competition. I have offered NO MODEL to expand the competition, only proposed that some difficult conversations about future expansion and the future of rugby league teams in Sydney needs to happen.
4. “You’re repeating what others have said regarding expansion before.”
All I have stated is that the topic of expansion for many rugby league people is a difficult subject because of the possible consequences expansion can have on some of the Sydney. What is so inaccurate about this? If others have stated similar sentiments, it is purely coincidental.
5. “Another expansionist”.
So “expansionists” outline the complexities and difficulties in making expansion work in an article they write? Hmmm….
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Yes, Paul I agree that the time is not right. But if you recall, the four teams introduced in 1995 were given notice in 1992 that they were given the green light for entry. Nothing can probably happen until the next TV and streaming deals anyway.
Regarding your comment about “guarantees of return”, anybody who is looking to get involved in owning/running a club for profit will be waiting a very long time…. NRL clubs don’t usually make money.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Adam, ask Mushi that question. I thought it means that “National” for the national competition but apparently this is a “fan boi bragging rights” thing made up with “no rationale commercial argument” for having a national competition.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Mushi,
Okay, fair enough. Disband the NRL.
Let’s get rid of the QLD teams, Canberra, Melbourne, Newcastle and the Warriors. Let’s go back to just a Sydney Comp and see how long the game survives on “cultural attachment”.
PS- I said nothing about South Island of NZ, I said “south”. A place called Wellington is down in the south of the North Island.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Adam, a licence system based on criteria is ideal in theory. But let’s not forget what happened the last time the NRL tried that. Fans lost to the game. Thousands of Souths fans protesting on the streets.
Courts and lawyers. It was a terrible look for the game.
For licensing to work, clubs would need to vote for it and put aside their own vested interests. I can’t see that happening.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Paul, I don’t disagree with you. The premise of my article is that expansion to new markets offers significant opportunities that cannot be ignored, yet, is also problematic at the same time. One problem is the cost of getting clubs established in markets like Perth as well as the impact on funding existing clubs.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Mad max, you clearly did not read my article. I explored the pros AND cons of expansion. You are just being critical for the sake of it.
As for Max Power, let’s see you write an article and offer some “substance”.
Expansion: The dirty word in rugby league
Paul,
No, it’s not. Pitting another team in NSW is saturation, not expansion.
The tale of the NRL's two neglected cities