Guys seriously on two fronts.

Sydney sporting capital of Australia, come on.

I love how the NRL people here are now using the AFL and the Swans in particular to champion their cause here, but when it is a NRL vs AFL thing the Swans are nothing more than a small team in a big town compared to the NRL as a whole. Please, this just reaffirms the insecurities of Sydney people when it comes to sporting prowess.

Don’t get me wrong, not for a second am I saying Sydney is a hole, I live here and love it, but coming from Melbourne this is just an obsurd statement, especially when it is one week, lol.

This article is just another example of a so called expert on NRL to try and champion the cause of NRL vs AFL. I somehow doubt an AFL expert would have done the same thing considering it is like putting a heavy weight up against a fly weight in Melbourne.

When you break it all down it comes down to simple maths for me.

Two VERY large teams in Sydney playing each other on a Saturday night in Sydney for a prelim. Lets look at the distinct advantages that comes with this if we want to make a war out of it with a potential winner at the end, which I’m ulimately assuming the NRL junkies come Monday will want to do.

Friday vs Saturday. The Saturday will ALWAYS have an advantage, a significant one at that.

Two home teams vs one home team/one interstate. I think this speaks for itself, coupled with a Friday night game makes it tough for Collingwood fans to travel up.

NRL playing in heartland territory, AFL playing away from it’s strong hold. Again speaks for itself.

Ticket prices across all levels of seating for the NRL half what the AFL are charging. Easy one here.

ANZ in AFL mode will only hold 75000, vs NRL mode 84500. If both for some miracle do get sellouts the NRL by default will win.

As point of fact there is actually not one single advantage the AFL has over the NRL when it comes to trying to outsell them here, but that won’t be mentioned come Monday should the NRL outsell the AFL.

The only natural advantage I would say the AFL has is it is a better product and if it does outsell the NRL under these circumstances then I would say every NRL fan should just accept that for what it is. This does not mean people have to folow the code, because for most of us it is what we were brought up with.

This whole code war thing though really does come to light when you read the Sydney press. It is something they love and this is yet another example of the insecurity the NRL and press have here in Sydney when it comes to chest beating against the AFL.

I would say the bookies have it about right, Andrew Johns is favourite with them and rightfully so. Meninga is a great servant to the game, probably more so than Johns, but when you take it on pitch quality, Johns really shines.

This is not to say Meninga is not deserving of Immortal status, but I believe Johns deserves to be made immortal based on his Rugby League ability.

For those of you who say Johns should not be made an immortal because of drugs and behaviour off the field? Well take a look at this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Immortals_(rugby_league)

At the bottom it explicity states that players can only be judged on their playing ability ONLY!

I’m not a huge fan of Johns, I think it is a discrace he is on television and does childens boot camps. He is a bigot, racist and a drug addict. But he was an oustanding footballer, one worthy of being immortilised.

The AFL followed a similar model with their hall of fame. Once inducted into the Hall of fame players over time can be upgraded to legend status. This is the highest honour in the game, just like the immortals are. Wayne Carey people debated for years whether he should be inducted into the Hall of fame because of his discraceful behaviour off the field (and believe me it doesn’t get much worse than his). However, he was inducted because the AFL hall of fame is purely based on football talent. Nothing else matters and that is why Johns for me will be the next Immortal.

Queensland

Trust me when I say, athletic talent like Billy Slater will most likely not be playing in the NRL if teams like the Storm do not grow and help build the NRL.

You are ignorant to this fact believing otherwise, so do not think of it as poaching of your talent, more an investment in your future.

It would be interesting to ask Billy Slater this question?

Billy would you rather win another State of Origin series with QLD or a premiership with the Storm?

The boy is 28 years old and getting no younger. He does not have a premiership to his name. Now considering he will most likely be remembered as the best full back this game has ever seen, to be remembered as one of the absolute greats, you need that premiership by your name. He doesn’t and I bet if you asked him personally what he wants more, it would be the premiership.

I do understand where you are coming from and if I was a QLDer, I’d be very proud of the players you produce, expecially Slater. I follow a lot of other football codes, but I can say without a shadow of a doubt, Slater is the finest athlete I have seen across all codes in a decade. Truely a great player and it just sh…ts me to see him out!

Oikee

I will reply to you first since you say I have a lot to learn!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Origin_series

As mentioned, I follow all sports and I know quite a lot about them, even if perhaps I don’t follow league as passionately as you do.

Please explain to me based on that link above how QLD struggled for years to keep up at Origin level?

To my understanding, QLD won the first 6 Origin games, 8 of the first 10 and 20 out of the 32 Origin series played? Correct me if I’m wrong, but would it not be fare to say it is NSW which has struggled to keep up?

i’ve always said this about Origin, just like I have always said it about the POMS. Why is it (just like with the POMS) a state with superior numbers, clubs, facilities and wealth can get toasted over a 30 year period of Origin football to a State with less in all departments?

Sorry Oikee, I’m proud to be a Victorian, just like you are proud to be a New South Welsh man (I’m assuming you are but again correct me if I’m wrong). However, when it comes to league and Origin, lets face it… it must be an embarrassment being from this state.

Rooar

The six nations and international represensation has one major difference. Players from the Storm in this similar circumstance would represent their COUNTRY, not a state which they do not support. I have no problems with players like Slater playing for Australia or Marshall for NZ. At the end of the day I can follow Australia because I love my country. I do not love NSW or QLD and have no desire to watch players from my club risking injury for a cause a large percentage of the Storms fan base has no interest in.

People who think it is just part of the game and it could happen in any of the NRL games. True, but by playing Origin which is at a much higher intensity only increased the chances of injury, again for a cause which does not benefit the people who are paying these players wage.

If we go with a few other peoples arguments that say Origin makes players better, I could ask you this. If this truely is the case and players are better for the experience, then this means you are discriminating against players who are tallented anough to play, yet not eligable because of seriously flawed selection criteria. This makes no sense to me this argument, it really doesn’t.

Yes I do watch SOO and I do enjoy watching it. Why? Because it is a vastly superior product to watch compared to NRL, but I will never love it or bond with it for the very same reason many of you say Victorians will never truely understand SOO football. That is we are not QLD or NSW born and bread and can not feeel the RAW passion and rivalry between these two states. I totally understand this, but don’t at the same time ask the warriors which are representing our club, trying to win the competition we hold dear to us to fight for a prize which will never fulfill our hopes and dreams based on this premises.

Like I mentioned, my second team is the Tigers. I love the fact that Benji will never be eligable for SOO because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside watching the rest of the players beating themselves up. It truely is a great advatange and I’d be farely sure Benji is no worse off as he watches these guys beating the living pi…ss out of each other over a 3 game series.

Cameron I’m glad someone has come in to bat for me on this one. You also make an interesting point, one which I wish I had mentioned myself.

The very fact Billy has been in the news papers because he will be out for Origin III, but no mention of how this will affect the Storm does highlight where Origin and the Premiership sit together.

Oikee, I can tell you are a passionate fan. So I will play the devils advocate here and argue the same point, just from a different angle to see how you feel about it.

Lets suppose the problem is solved by the Storm producing their own players, thus not being eligable for rep foorball for either NSW or QLD. Lets also assume for a second a new Perth team comes in and makes the NRL a truely nationalal competition. This team then starts to produce it’s own stars, along with a second NZ team. More players like Benji become the stars of the competition, all of whom are NOT eligable for SOO.

Now my question is Oikee, why should people playing in the NRL be denyed the chance to play in supposedly the highest competition in the world, that being SOO level? If this is to be the case, how long until the number of players outside of QLD and NSW is supparsed by the other states and NZ if the NRL wants to truely become a national sport.

The reason I ask this is simple. If the NRL wants to be truely national it needs to start growing young tallent out of the traditional states. This of course then means they are not eligable. I can tell you now, if I was the Storm manager I would be looking for players like Benji Marshall because I know he wont be disrupted by SOO which instantly adds MORE value to me then a Billy Slater because SOO, despite what you think, seriously disrupts the season for many clubs.

The Bronchos have won so many premierships for one reason and one reason only. They are a better run, better finanaced and better supported team than all of the other clubs combined. They are a true hall mark of the NRL, a team that all other teams should strive to become, simple as that

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on why players outside of QLD and NSW should be denyed playing in such high standard for football when they too are playing in a NATIONAL competition.

Of course they could, just like some NRL players may be able to make it at AFL level.

The real question you should be asking is could an AFL player make it on sporting merit in the NRL and not marketting value?

Both Falou and Hunt would not have made this cut and despite Hunt starting to look promosing, the amount of time and effort put into him will not pay off over time, not for a contending premiership team anyway.

I work in the field of sports science and I can tell you now you could take an AFL player and sculpt them into a NRL player much easier than you could the other way around.

Before I get onto this, there are certain positions in league this would not be as easy for, that being the wing positions which you mentioned would be easy. Great wing players are usually 95 plus kg players with a lot of straight line power and I’m talking raw power. This would not be easy for an any AFL player to come across and be. Folou was a winger and he was 102kg pure power which is why he is struggling going the other way.

The full back position, however, would be farely easy physically for an AFL player to make it, but it also requires more creativity. Could this be learnt quickly, well that depends on the tallent of the player and players like Chris Judd and Gary Ablett fit this mould far greater than anything you have mentioned. They are creative thinkers, it is what they do 24/7 and they live in a 360 degree field of player, unlike a league player. It is far more feasible players like this would be able to adapt to these positions such as half back and 5/8 much quicker than the power positions.

There is a saying. You can build a marathon runner, but you a born a sprinter. This is very true for many positions on a league pitch, which is why many positions would be out for AFL players. This is also true for certain positions in the AFL which require fast ballistic muscle fibres, but a lighter frame. Remember this year when Natinui was rucking against Folou? Well I do and Folou was jumping about 3 feet below Natinui and Folou was regarded as having the greatest verticle leap in the NRL!

You also have to take the mental toughness of a player also when it comes to training. AFL training is FAR more stringent and taxing than NRL, both Folou and Hunt have testified to this. When you watch the most elite athletes after 2 minutes of fast player they are absolutely spent. This can not be said about to many NRL periods of play, it is very stop start. It is also the reason the Demons are so poor because they have mentally weak players who are not pushing the gas tanks to the limit.

To build elite cardio capacity, agility and the right muscle balance required in the AFL is far more mentally tough than buidling limited cardio capacity and a big muscle frame. Don’t for a second think I’m saying it would be quicker building up a bulky frame for NRL, because that is not true, it would take probably 2 years, but it would not be nearly as mentally tough.

Saying that, players like Ablett would probably not have to put on much weight to play in the positions I have mentioned, more so shifting weight to different areas which would be a lot easier mentally than Hunt having to increase his cardio capacity which is tough if you are not a dedicated athlete.

The only may you would ever see a legitimate defection of an AFL player would be if they could make it the very next season. Based on this fact you therefore can really on rule in the players who would not require huge transformations in the body build and that pretty much only leaves the creative players. This means tallent comes into play, but also a MASSIVE price tag.

Therefore in order for this to happen, not only would the NRL’s salary cap have to double to match the AFL’s, you would require a team to probably offer double what a player like Judd is already on to make them switch. The risk vs reward needs to be this high to make them move. 200-300K will not make players like this switch, millions of dollars will and the NRL wont have this anytime soon and if they do the AFL will probably have 10’s of millions so I doubt we will ever see this.

In summary, interesting article which has been done before. I’m sure it will get many hits because it is kind of like a league vs afl article which people love to argue about, but at the end of the day I can’t say I agree with a huge amount of it.

no chance!

Yewonk

That’s not what I said at all and you know it. I said that going to an AFL match in Sydney had a much more family friendly environment and was safer than going to a rugby league game.

That is a huge difference to what you just said, that being league is unsafe to go too. As stated above, I made that comment on an AFL thread, not on this forum, if you don’t like it then that’s your problem, because it’s my opinion and that’s what this site is all about.

Also if I was trolling, why on earth have a got all positive comments to my original statement about origin, which at best is always contraversial.

No my friend, I think it is you who is the Troll and when someone gives a compelling argument you don’t agree with, you pack your marbles up and go cry in the corner.

Well boo hoo to you!

yewonk

I’ll have another bet, just with you though.

When the NRL announces their next TV rights deal, it will also include the announcement (or not too long after) of the next two expansion teams. One in Brisbane and the other in Perth.

Try reading my post in context again and maybe you will understand.

As far as my previous comments, no idea, but I must have made an impression on you for you to remember that.

If I remember correctly, I think I said something along those lines, but it was on the AFL forum, not this one so I don’t know why you are getting so ruffled.

I picked 2 games this weekend, what a round!

Agree 100 percent

no

I actually agree with the author on this one, but also can see the other side of the coin.

As present, I do not see the NRL in it’s current position where Origin is detrimental to it’s cause. It needs Origin to market the game, why would it not, it’s a brilliant show piece.

However, as the NRL slowly grows the concept will start to where thin. Origin itself will gradually start to become more of a hinderance than help when it comes to growing the game.

There are a number of reasons for this so I will briefly outline now.

1. Origin is between two states, QLD and NSW. As the NRL expands to other states, this will ultimately alienate the other states. Not only will it alienate them, but it could cause mass histeria when a Perth team has one of it’s players out for the season from and ACL injury suffered in game where it’s player is representing a state these people have no interest in.

2. Origin it self in many peoples eyes should NOT be the show piece. I disgree with many of the other people views that Origin is very markettable around the world because it is so good. Even if this were true and it did happen, 3 games is not going to cut it if it damages the actually competetion itself. You can not draw a conclusion that if you sell Origin world wide, this will equate to more people watching the NRL, especially when crowd numbers actually go down during Origin. This is flawed logic!

I will have a bet with some people here as to when I believe Origin will start to flounder.

In the next 7-10 years I believe we will start to see the first cracks in Origin. the reason for this is I believe the next TV rights deal will result in much larger pay checks for it’s stars. This combined with an even greater TV deal in 5 years time will reallly bring the NRL into the 21 century, like many other great competitions around the world.

The first hint of players not playing Origin because they have a saw finger is when Origin is dead. 7-10 years, this will start happening, because clubs will no longer be able to justify to stake holders why their 2 million athlete jsut got knocked out in a game their share holders have no interest in.

As present it is fine, all clubs release players and all players love Origin. When some clubs start to put pressure on players, the playing field is no longer even. This will have a knock on effect, but it only takes one club to start doing it, ONE!

7-10 years, that’s my bet on when the first club will do this. I’m betting it will be the Storm or one of the Perth based teams first, either way it will happen and that will be the end of Origin as we know it.

I follow all sport, including horse racing and I have to disgree with all of you.

Yes, Black Caviar is a truely a great horse, there is no denying it, but she will never become legendary or put into Australian folk lore.

Living in Sydney, I don’t get the feeling at all that she is dominating the sporting head lines, hell you would have to seriously go out of your way to actually watch most of her races since they only last 2 minutes and are on Saturdays when most people are doing other things.

I agree with what the AFL did, for all the above reasons, but make no mistake they did it as a PR exercise and also because as one gentleman already stated, owed racing one for changing their own scheduling for the AFL in the past.

As far as Black Caviar goes, I will tell you this. As an avid horse racing lover, it is great to see an Australian horse do so well. However, Australia was built on the thoroughbred horse. Horse racing and gambling is in our DNA and is why the Melbourne Cup is the BIGGEST sporting event in Australia by a country mile. Not only that it is one of the biggest horse races around the world now.

Sprinters have and never will hold any great long term credibility in this country. Stayers are the pride and joy of this country, the most revered of all thoroughbreds.

The greatest races around the world are for stayers, there is nothing better than watching champion American horses winning the Triple Crown, European horses battling it out for the ultimate prize in the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe, or even our very own Melbourne cup, Cox plate and Caufield Cup.

I had a tear in my eye when I watched from Ireland the great Makybe Diva win her third straight cup. That made headlines around the world, that’s star power!

The great Pharlap still is the second most popular sporting icon, second only to the great Don Bradman in Australia’s sporting landscape. Why, because he was the best stayer in the WORLD!

I will be watching when Black Caviar tries to cement herself as possibly the best sprinter ever when she runs at Royal Ascot in front of the Queen. I bid her he best of luck and despite what I have said above, I will be very proud if she can stick it to the Pomps!

Go the CAVIAR!

No I compared national ratings with national ratings beaussie. Go look up the national ratings for last year yourself!

It just so happens most of the national ratins for Origin come from QLD and NSW which is what you would expect, which again is why the N in NRL really doesn’t mean a huge amount.

It also highlights how Origin, although you may think benefits the game, actually alienates the other states.

The Voice is truley a national show, played in prime time when lots of people are watching TV.

Origin despite it’s numbers still does not attract a massive audience nationally considering it is in prime time TV in the middle of winter when compared to other big TV products.

Lots of shows attract high millions without the massive publicity origin gets, so when you take this all into consideration (and believe me the networks will), Origin is not as valuable as you may think.

Mango as far as your VFL comment.

I think Victorians ar very proud of the game they created. Melbourne will ALWAYS be the home of AFL, always and every Victorian should be proud of that. I don’t see Victorians despising the AFL or wishing it could go back to the good old days. Of course there are those who live in the past, but by in large, most people move on and Victorians have done that.

NRL hoepfully one day will also do this. It matters little to me, I see it everyday here in Sydney the fractured nature of the NRL. You only have to read these boards to see how insecure alot of the NRL fans are, you don’t see that here on the AFL boards nearly as much.

I’m here to point out rep football is of no use and would be detrimental to AFL going forward. Whether you as an NRL fan take my 2 cents on boards is up to you, along with the greater powers who run that game.

I’d be very surprised if the AFL ever brought rep football back, especially during the AFL season.

I agree with everything that has already been said as to why NOT to have rep football.

The AFL has grown beyond this and the NRl will one day do so too. Not because it wants to, but because it will have too and it will eventually die.

Now if the NRL does not grow up then it will eventually get swallowed up by the AFL anyway.

Therefore there are two pathways for the NRL.

1. It continues to grow and prosper, matching the AFL over the next 50 years with Origin gradually fading away as it become a truely national sport.

2. It remains an eastern seaboard game where Origin is the pinnacle of the game. The best athletes are no longer represented in Origin anymore because they are all playing AFL because they get paid 10 times more!

I’ll also throw this out to all ORIGIN fans.

If Origin was so good, then why do they play it mid week?

I’ll tell you why, it’s because it is in high rating period. 2.5 million people watching Origin is not that impressive on a Wednesday night when you see shows like the Voice getting 3.5 million in it’s second show on a Monday.

Weekends always rate lower and their is more sporting competition on the landscape. If Origin was sooooooo good, then they would dedicate the weekend to it, but they can’t because it would screw the season up even more than what it already does.

Secondly it would not rate anywhere near as high as it does. This would then make the league look even more inferior, but instead they can hide behind fake numbers in a high ratings period.

Ever wonder why channel nine is no longer number one?

Channel seven is because it has good content in high ratings periods which is NOT AFL. It used AFL to rate well in the low ratings periods, whilst it watches channel 9 use NRL in a high ratings period get good numbers, not great.

the biggest sticking point the AFL had with channel 7 with it’s last TV rights deal was the Friday night fixture. The AFL wanted live matches at 7:30, but channel 7 did not want the highest rating show on Friday night (better homes and gardens moved), why would you???

The AFL conceded and this is still the highest rating show on Friday, killing both the AFL and NRL in ratings.

You NRL folk need to take lesson in business, marketting and advertising, because your 2 plus million viewers on a Wednesday night for Origin is not actually that impressive!

The BB I think will only get bigger in the future.

Cricket is in a transition phase at the moment.

The ACB are in a dilema like the english are about where to take the game. On the one hand they have a really popular fomat in 20 20, but on the other they have test which is dying.

Do they bite the bullet and kill off test with 20 20, or do they just let things evolve with time. At the moment neither is happening for they are holding 20 20 back in fear of it killing test, which in my opinion it will eventually do.

As far as popularity, 20 20 I think will one day be HUGE in Australia and around the world.

I think you will find Dravid isn’t really remembered outside of India that much because he really wasn’t that good outside of India.

When I say not that good, I mean by god like standard. Most Indian cricketers are like this, but Dravid more so.

I don’t even think Tendulka is the best modern day cricketer, I would put Kallis much higher as the best modern day player who could play all around the world.

George Smith still did the best tackle I have ever seen when he took out Wilkinson in the 2003 World Cup final. Well almost anyway, Wilko still kicked that fecking drop goal, but at least Wilko’s neck has never been the same since!

Of course the Storm are going to back a draft. Think about it, Gallop has stated many times he has no ambition to bring in a draft because he likes the idea of young home grown heros playing for their local clubs.

Now take the Storm. This is probably never going to happen, well not in my life time anyway since they have very little grass roots football happening in Melbourne.

Living in Sydney for the past 5 years, it is very apparent that AFL is slowly growing out west.

Those numbers, although nowhere near the NRL are still impressive in all departments. Just go to a Swans game vs any NRL game and it is a completely different vibe.

Mind you I don’t think a Swans match gives a very good impression of what AFL live is like across Australia, but it does give off a much friendlier and safer atmosphere than NRL does.

Woman are the key, I’ve been saying this for years.

Happy wife happy life. If I keep her in the good books she lets me bugger off to the footy 🙂

Never going to happen.