The greatest thing of a ‘distinct’ game are the distinctions from other games.

That includes no off-side,

an oval field,

and, a qualitative measure applied to goals – –

i.e. – – MUST be kicked,

MUST NOT be ‘touched’

MUST NOT deflect off the post.

Far better for the AFL to ensure that goal umpires are given some common sense assistance to get it right.

The logic of the posts is that they hold the default value of the lesser of the connected ‘boundaries’. It’s pretty good logic.

ah, but, could they??
T.S.Marshall recalled from the early attempted games of 1858 –

“The English players tried a version of Rugby, the Scotch played a game that defied description, the Irishmen yelled and punted the ball up in the air, and others played with no rules at all”.

William Hammersley, one of the men that draw up the rules and a renowned journalist recalled the events many years later :

“One day after a severe fight in the old Richmond Paddock when blood had been freely drawn and some smart raps exchanged and a leg broken, it occurred to some of us that if we had rules to play under it would be better”.

The ‘certainty’ of Rugby school rules was that they told you how to avoid a tree and a pond!!!!

The ‘challenge’?? Whaddya reckon?

(defending the game from the taunts of the British……)

A more physical brutal game…..and yet you imply that the ‘off-side’ rule was designed to avoid being swatted in the back of the head!! Noice!!

At any rate – yes. The school boy game of Rugby (because, factually – the only set of RUgby rules they had to reference was what Tom Wills had played at school – – there was no guiding adult version to refer to…….that’s the ‘fact’ element. It’s not a denegration…….the good folk of Melbourne were operating in a bit of a void,……..regular football for adult recreation was generally only once a year Queens Birthday festival ‘mob football’).

The rules had to be created in some compromise fashion. That’s got to be a given – – to allow all to play and not complain of being hard done by.

Melb was reported to have had a driver winter around then….probably more akin to the last few although this year has been a bit wetter at last.

So, design a game for local conditions to be played by adults with adult ‘sizings’ and adult responsibilities,
and the key there is that early days at least, it was not so much the labourers, as, they were tending still to be busy at work of a Saturday. It was the shop owners and office workers. Were they softer??……..no doubt.

The game DID start as I indicated with hacking still a part of the game, and various elements came and went.

And the working men got into the game. ANd important to note that Melb circa 1856 delivered to the world the 8 hour day. So, Melbourne was at the forefront as a wealthy gold rush city, with progressive labour laws and a growing population from around the world in the main by choice rather than as penalty and the benefit of evolving as a city in a planned way in the era of rail travel and a recognition of the virtue of wide streets.

All these factors helped Melbourne/Victorian rules to flourish in such a way that by about 1880, as adult football recreation – – it was probably a world leader. Alas,….being at the RRR’s end of the Empire,……it was not in a position to ‘lead’!!

Nothing to do with superiority. Reality is there was a narrow window. There novel Tom Browns school days popularised the idea of playing ‘football’ (not necessarily the ‘how’). The time was right. But what rules to use?? Had the Melb folk not agreed,…..had the London FA committee come together at the time the Sheffield Cricketers thought out their own set of rules…….then, quite likely, English imperialism would’ve ensured that the MElb/Vic rules were buried in history.

No superiority,……just a cute little piece of timing. Heck, in 1858 Melb was barely 20 odd years old. Barely out of ‘settlement nappies’. What if it had been a penal colony? What if it hadn’t been settled for another 10 years?

Farqwar –

ah, but, perhaps the Swans cater purely to a niche AFL state ‘expat’ population, and therefore are solely servicing that market segment,

whilst for ‘local’ content/links – – RL covers most the bases there, and what it doesn’t RU and Soccer are left to fight over.

????

however, the Swans have a fine legacy of NSW born and bred captains from Wagga and Albury!! (Denis Carroll, Paul Kelly and Brett Kirk),

actually – – I’ve always felt that because of the competition in the market place in Australia, it’s pretty hard to be dominant in every layer,

i.e. AFL is the most dominant club based league/competition, NRL second.

NRL league is compromised for about 6 weeks each year by SoO which is it’s clearly dominant offering, alas, only 2 states,……so, there’s a market outside of that that the AFL perhaps could hold, i.e. Vic vs SA, but, the AFL has shelved that. RU is obviously hoping to stake a claim on this market, previously the Reds vs the ‘Tahs just wasn’t quite a SoO level – – – however, through in Vic and WA and the ARU will hope to take a leading positition in this tier.

international – and that’s where RU (Wallabies) and Soccer (‘oos) have held sway, but, rarely at the same time.

Perhaps AUstralia just dictates that no one code is going to rule all tiers at the one time. Kinda hope that’s so. It keeps the B@st@rds humble!!!! (humbler).

😉

a good effort by the Danes to get so close, alas, didn’t use the wind nearly well enough in the 3rd quarter, and were also jumped early as Ireland got the first 2 goals before Dk settled for the next 6.

SamSport –

are you picking on the broadcasters and their promotion of the match?

or on the activities and events AT the venue ON the day – – – which I’d be seriously surprised about. The awareness and respect for the day that these annual matches have helped encourage in a new generation seems a good thing. The RSL is involved and was from the outset. If they aren’t getting an appropriate deal – – then, perhaps no appropriate deal was done!!

btw – NRL on Good Friday? any issues with that??

where do you start and where do you stop??

btw – NRL do it better??……..better?? what?? do they play for free??

No, not at all – -there was not intend to mollify. IT’s fact.

Melb rules committee acknowledged having copies of at least 4 sets of English school football rules, plus personal experience.

A mix of games??, or a mix of fundamental concepts??……after all, in London 4 years hence, they endeavoured to achieve the similar outcome of a single set of rules for all.

re the founders – – they opted against Rugby rules as per :
“Tom Wills suggested the Rugby rules, but no one understood them except himself, and the usual result was “adjourn to the Parade Hotel close by and think the matter over”.

although, initially it was plenty rough, as hacking for example was not banned. It was later, Tom Wills objected.

the justification is the classic quote : Black eyes don’t look so good in Collins Street”

I’m not sure what there is to be ‘far too afraid’ of???

at least it isn’t trending down wards like MVFC have despite their success.

FOr a niche market position – the Swans are going okay.

there’s also been nice little theories about how Eton College were so off put by the good publicity Rugby School was getting for it’s nice ‘Christian Masculinity’ around it’s sports and football pragram was half the reason that the Eton folk went to the other extreme, i.e. Rugby school was a majority ‘handling’ game so Eton went as far the other way to eggagerate the differences.

Whether absolutely true or not – – the main thing is that soccer and rugby are evolved mainly from schoolboy games. Australian Football was designed for adults at the outset.

not with tricks??

curious that F.I.U.L. figures that MVFC stand alone is a valid point of comparison to the overall AFL avg and the overall NRL average.

for the benefit of F.I.U.L.,

HAL avgs
11K, 13K, 14.6K, 12.2K, 9.6K…….hmmm, myths????

HAL – that the GF rematch on home soil for the reigning premier,……and only 12K?????? (in Australia’s biggest soccer city/state!!!)

F.I.U.L.

ahem…..MVFC next Saturday will be the one and only game of A-League soccer in town all week.

A-League – Rnd 1 V6 in Melb – – 11,050.

the only game for soccer followers in the entirestate to attend.

Where as North Melb was bookended by 57K at the ‘G the night before, and 84K (the largest ever Sat night crowd) gathering at the ‘G immediately the siren sounded at Etihad. Heck, the next day another 68K rocked up to 2 more games – 224K to 5 matches in town.

I’m not real sure then why you’re mentioning the North v Freo game….whilst ignoring that MVFC avg’d 20,400 last year, and have only topped 30K 4 times in the last 3 seasons for H&A games, around 1 every 8,…and not since V3 has the MVFC first game of the season kicked off with anything over 30K, let alone, anything over 23K!!!

Strange comparisons,

bold prediction.

and surely needless x-code flaming on a thread I guess designed exactly for such!!

when did this become a tab about Soccer is great and NRL is better than AFL???

that’d work a treat, Israel Folau could do a doubled headed lap of honour in the back of a ute – – a fairwell to the NRL and a welcome to the AFL all at the one time………..brilliant!!!

I heard the AFL is paying people to go to the MCG this weekend instead of AAMI park last night,……alas, the cheque never arrived for Gary Ablett and Matthew Stokes (seen pictured in the paper today),…..or,……is the reason G.Ablett isn’t divulging whether he’ll be going Gold Coast or staying at Geelong is due to the fact that he’s going to be a key signing for the new Central coast Bears in the NRL.

Any truth to the rumour that the MCG has been bought out by Westfield?

any truth to the rumour that Clive Palmer is Australia’s new nomination to head the ICC??

😉

it’s the waiting for a come back that’s annoying….they come on, blow their trumpet once – somewhat irrationally – – and never engage in a discussion around it which is really annoying,

if they do come back, it’s just to fire off another cliched ‘anti-AFL’ sentiment as though we’ve never heard it before!!

Anyway, Dons by 20-30 tonight me thinx. Carlton just aren’t up to it and Hille makes Essendon a different team.

MelbFC has well and truely paid homage to players that ‘answered the call’, and this has been never far from the clubs consciousness with respect to Ron Barassi. So, no, it’s not a recent thing.

re ANZAC day stuff……what?? the AFL isn’t alowed to remember the fallen – – given that AFL/VFL has clubs that have had players die in war going back to the Boer War prior to federation. The University football club was effectively decimated during WWI and never recovered to stay in the peak competition. There’s a nice long list here of footballers that died in service.

I’m not sure what makes you sick about the league never forgetting……isn’t that the whole premise of ANZAC day??

At what point do you suggest the league should choose to forget?? The ANZAC day game is run in conjunction with the RSL afterall (noting it was Collingwood fan Bruce Ruxton who helped bring it about).

Me thinx you are seeking too hard to be offended. ‘Courage’ comes in many forms and isn’t a word owned by military exploits. Heck, Jason McCartney showed ‘courage’ to return to top flight footy……does that diminish the courage shown by anyone else??….surely not.

Simon – – seriousy??

No, it’s only for one year whilst they have an odd number of teams and a couple of rounds of byes.

Unless you imagine that people (including the aggrieved cricket and racing authorities) are gong to suddenly love it so much that they demand a change to the MCG contractual arrangements that give Cricket the ‘G from October 1 to March 31.

So long as the NRL GF is on the Sunday, then there’s not really any point.

It’ll always be a suddenly footy free afternoon and there’s nothing else on tele and supporters of all but one club in the AFL are seeking a distraction……..NRL GF,……Bathurst……the nags,……go play cricket!!!!

however, there’s a difference b/w a one off or a higher level representative match and the weekly grind of club based competition,

quite often a side is just ‘flat’,……that might be due to training loads, it might just be genuine tiredness in a group that has been ‘up’ for a period of time.

The ‘pride’ is strong, but, the spirit is temporarily weak.

SamSport –

ah, but a lot of ‘team sport’, and the football codes in particular effectively began their lives as organised school based activities in England circa 1830-1840 with all the military vernacular in place from the outset,

and were seen as good activities to develop the requisite military disciplines.

The link is not a ‘modern’ one. It’s been there since the start.

Terms like off-side are directly borrowed from the military “Off the strength of your side”. Link to article

The word off-side derives from the military term “off the strength of his side”. When a soldier is
“off the strength”, he is no longer entitled to any pay, rations or privileges. He cannot again receive
these unless, and until he is placed back “on the strength of his unit” by someone other than himself.

Military sides were common opposition.

It’s not a modern thing.

btw – have you seen the new MelbFC which includes a little ‘flame’ above the ‘M’ that pays homage to the military losses of the Melbourne FC over a history that dates back 150 years.

macavity –

in AFL hitting people from behind is called “courageous” and “tough”.

NO, it is not.

Hitting people from behind has been so legislated OUT of the game that even an undisciplined but slight frustrated ‘bump’ into someones back is awarded a freekick.

It is rightly judged to be undesirable behaviour.

Where do you see hitting someone in the back in recent times as being celebrated in AFL circles??

Just thunked of this –

back when the GWS had a big media conference with Folau and Dale Holmes opened with a mention of 3 young kids who’d signed on to GWS,

and the question around ‘marketing/promotional’ value as to whether it’s paid off already I guess can be asked by quizzing if anyone can remember those kids names.

If you need to cheat, the here’s link.

Hint –

one from Alice Springs (NT),
one from Culcain (NSW)
one from Finley (NSW)

Chuq –

ah, but does that solve everything.

Firstly – if it’s an issue for the VRC and Cricket Victoria that the game being on at all on the given days is too disruptive to local competitions or racing at Flemington,…..then, whether it’s at the MCG or Homebush isn’t the issue.

The AFL’s perspective is the surprise that Oct 1 is suggested as off limits, as, that’s the normal ‘stand by’ day – – obviously people are assuming there won’t be a draw!!

The only way to avoid grass roots cricketers from being draw away from their games by GF parties is to ensure that either the cricket or the GF isn’t running on the Saturday afternoon.

Can the cricketers play on Sunday? or can the AFL GF run at night??

Brett –

exactly – – it’s a ‘fire’ being fanned by media interest hoping for a nice little cricket vs footy stouch,…..however, there might just be some underlying animosities just itching to bubble right to the surface.

The MCG as a staging ground is interesting as for so many years CV was playing shield games at the Junction Oval, or Punt Rd and it’s only since the most recent AFL funded rebuilding that the Vics want to play at the ‘G all the time because of their you beaut indoor training/prepping facilities.

It probably irks some in the cricket fraternity that with the drop in pitches – that the MCG is now more the MFG, unlike the Gabba that has retained the in situ pitches……but, then, it no doubt still irks the footy fraternity that it’s run by the MCC who have such a vested interest and the archaic govt (MCG trust) appointed management regime is severely to the disadvantage of the AFL.

So……mebbe, just mebbe, there might be a war a-brewin’.

again, hopefully some of those anti-AFL people take note that any Govt funding to the MCG is sure as heck NOT into the pockets of the AFL……it ain’t the AFL’s ground (managed/owned) even though, in a sense it perhaps should be (being the major tennant re revenue by a long, long way).

and how does that apply in this circumstance – – – please do tell??

A reminder for some – back in early July the AFL announced this as a discussion point.

Back then –

“We fully respect the commitments that Cricket Australia has in March and it was the AFL’s view that it was not appropriate that we begin the season without the use of three key grounds, which are still required to be available for cricket at that time of the year,” AFL Chief Operating Officer Gillon McLachlan said.

and at the time it was Racing Victoria that was most up in arms, but were talking to the relevant minister about switching to Sunday events with the Turnball Stakes day and the following Caulfield Guineas.

The irony now is there’s media speculation of an interstate GF……but, clearly, that would have the same impact on the day to grass roots cricket or horse racing of people tuning in to the GF on tele and wanting to be at GF partys.

I reckon you can rule out an interstate GF……that solves nothing for anyone.