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Joined March 2017
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The problem Carlton have also had of course with bringing in players from other clubs is that you need talent to trade for talent. Carlton traded most of their players with value out for draft picks, which would seem reasonable once they decided to head down the rebuild route.
It’s funny how we are talking about Carltons lack of leadership as a problem now, but when Carlton started their rebuild so many on this site were bagging Carlton for not trading out Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs for draft picks immediately.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
I remember this statement at the start of the rebuild and I think it was a comment more about targeting big name free agents or trading for a star, rather than not bringing in any mature age talent at all.
In fact, we did bring in a few mature age players last offseason, unfortunately none have provided anything. Lobbe, OShea, mullet, Shaw. Despite him not playing I understand Lobbe decision as a back up his contract when it ends frees up cap space for when we we plan on targeting free agents.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
You had to be at the game on the weekend seeing the whole field to truly appreciate Carltons lack of effort. Their unwillingness to work to get to the next contest (for some players any contest) and most damning their lack of accountability to transition to defender.
I’m used to seeing teams flooding their backline, but I was watching Brisbane players flood their forward line because they knew the Carlton players weren’t willing to run with them.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
Both McKay (while there) and SOS have acknowledged that this is an area that needs to be addressed in the offseason (a lack of on field, mature leaders).
You won’t get an acknowledgment from Macca that the Carlton football club got something wrong though.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
I was at the Gabba for the game and it was a cold day in Brisbane if you ask me
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
Macca, it is the worst season in our clubs history, don’t defend it with the quality of our losing margins. Peter is right we lack experienced leaders to help us compete now and more importantly in a rebuild support the development of our younger players.
Injuries have hurt in a big way, but the cupboard was pretty bare in the leadership department at Carlton already.
Carlton seem to have acknowledged that, and have suggested they will be looking to bring in some more experienced players next year.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton
And you forgot Made Simpson, another handy player. It was a better list and ready to begin it’s push to the finals
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
If they can’t beat men in the VFL, they have no chance of beating men in the AFL and little chance of even being competitive.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Graham at this point of 2018 is a better player than O’Brien and getting a game because it is best for the club is not being gifted game, it’s being given a game because it’s best for the club.
What happened to all your talk of patience and playing the long game Macca?
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Dow, O’Brien and SPS are just talented passengers on this team at the moment, pick up a few possessions, but other than glimpse of their talent every now and then, they have very little impact on the game.
His best game this week, but most weeks O’Brien is near invisible.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
It was two years to late with Weitering.
Kennedy had an injury do isn’t really part of this discussion.
Paddy Dow and SPS I think would benefit from spending time in the VFL with the responsibility of being one of the teams more influential players on the result of games, rather than barely contributing most weeks in the AFL. Not all the time, but at times. It particularly would have benifited Paddy Dow earlier in the season, SPS for some spells last year.
Silvagni’s form last year warranted his spot in the best 22 and when he struggled earlier this year they did the right thing, by sending him back to VFL to add to his game by spending time in the midfield. Carlton looks to maybe have got that right, but personally I think a few more weeks in learning this new role in the VFL wouldn’t have hurt. And as for this discussion Silvagni wasn’t a high draft pick.
And the jury is still out on how good a player McKay is going to be, but I like what I’ve seen this year, and I believe the patience that is being shown with him should be the approach with the development of all our young players.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Weitering had been gifted games for an extended period of time when his form (and lack of development) didn’t warrant it.
What Carlton did with Weitering and Silvagni is actually an example of what I think Carlton shouldbe doing with our young players (I think another week or two in the VFL would have been even better for them. They have both come back playing better football.
Kennedy had an injury and I think the patience that Carlton has shown in McKay is the patience we should have shown in all our young draftees.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Many have over taken Weitering, McKay and Cunningham. SPS has stagnated. And Cerra over Dow at the moment and Richard’s over O’Brien.
Gotta leave it at that and not with much thought, my battery is about to go
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Those young players should have more influence on changing those results in the VFL if they are as good as we think they are. Currently they are having very little influence on AFL games at the moment which is understandable at their age, but until they are consistently dominating at VFL level I don’t think they should be playing AFL, because it is what’s best for their long term development.
And Graham and like wouldn’t be being gifted games. It would be there role at the club to protect these kids and aid in their development
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Leadership does help with youngsters and Carlton lack leaders on the park at the moment. It also helps for teams like Sydney that with so many established players the game style is in tact so a young player has the advantage of coming in knowing they can concentrate on their role in a system that is stable rather than falling apart around them. That said teams like Sydney won’t play that player until they believe that player is ready to play his role.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
They also seem to accept that they are assured of a spot in the firsts regardless of the effort they put in. It’s why putting on the Carlton jumper doesn’t mean much to these kids, because like their games it was gifted to them rather earnt because they were a high draft pick.
Agree with everything you said about developing kids in the VFL Cat.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
I would have thought by his third season he’d be getting a taste of if it , but I also think he would of benifited from playing games in the VFL as a key back, rather than protecting him in the firsts as a floating defender because he wasnt physically ready to defend AFL forwards.
I’ve always thought that it takes until their 4th season that most key forwards and backs are physically ready to really compete at AFL level. Carlton seemed to believe Weitering was ready in round 1 of his first season (or was that round 2?)
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
With nothing much to trade with (unlike when he was at GWS) that we can afford to lose, SOS is going to have to hit the free agent market and scour the VFL, WAFL, SANFL,NEAFL and whatever the Tasmanian league is called (I’m sure Gill doesn’t know either) to find those hidden treasures. Not easy to do I know and will never be done at a high percentage hit rate, but the players are there.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
The Gaffs and Wines are unlikely to come to Carlton next year ( I hope I am wrong), but they need to hit the next level of free agents hard next year and should be talking to them now offering them the 2-3 year contracts clubs are often reluctant to give to these older players (Waite was an example). 2 or 3 years is all we need them for to cover this rebuild.
Clear the ones that have clearly failed to offer anything, I’m sure we count 5 or 6 really easily and bring in 4 mature players around 28 years of age. Pick the wrong players and it will be disastrous, but being able to pick the right ones really is what SOS is paid to do and did so well at GWS, finding the right mature aged players to compliment and assist in the development of their young talented players. Something SOS has done incredibly poorly at Carlton.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
There is plenty of evidence that Carlton have failed to develop there draft picks. Shall we go through Carltons last twenty years of draft history? And as for our drafteesof the last 3 years, Charlie Curnow and Fisher aside , when you compare the development of our lot compared to players from other teams taken in the same drafts we really aren’t faring to well.
And Macca, how many players have we seen leave Carlton and become better elsewhere and have failed draft picks delisted before you might start believing there might be a problem with Carlton itself.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
You would argue anything that dares question anything Carlton.
Pretty easy for Weitering to gather possessions floating around the back half, a lot harder to impact the contest and being attacking in your use oft the ball. Weitering doesn’t do a lot of the harder things. Are we still protecting him from going up against key forwards? He has looked better since returning from the VFL.
This isn’t attack on Weitering, but the way Carlton develop or should I wreck talented young players.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Agreed that it is the lack of quality mature aged players that is hurting Carlton at the moment, but it is Carlton that is hurting these players development at the moment by placing club need above what’s best for their young players. And your right that losing leaders such as Docherty and Murphy has further impacted the possible advantages of playing these kids in the first.
As for the benefit of developing younger players in the 2’s I will look to what the successful clubs do in the AFL, Carlton aren’t one of them. When a player gets his first game at Sydney he looks ready to play his role and contribute to the team in that match (not 3 down the track), this can be said most teams in the top half of the ladder.
So yes, I do see the benefits of Carlton developing these young players in the VFL.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
Just out of curiosity is there a difference in points awarded for an effective short kick compared to an effective long kick in that fantasy world?
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
It’s what you do with the possessions that count Macca not how many you get, don’t do the fantasy football thing, I follow the real thing where those 22 possessions were in a smashing .
Weitering looked so poised in his first season. Now when he gets the ball he usually holds it up for an eternity before taking the low risk option of a sideways, backwards or very short kick. Weitering is at a point now where he even looks nervous taking an open chest mark . I know you like to be right, but Weitering is not playing with confidence.
The commentators from two radio stations commented on how indecisive SPS looked when making the decision on where to kick the ball. This season he has gotten into the habit of taking the short kick option to often. Incredible talent and we get to see glimpses of it, but he should be so much more damaging with his ability.
Goalless first half by Blues in AFL
I was at the beach Sunday. We really do have it pretty good up here.
I’m really not sure why so so many young Victorian players would want to leave Qld to go home to their mummies.
Brisbane show they are miles ahead of Carlton