I’ve been having a bit of correspondence with Kurt Oeler of gainline.us in the last couple of days about the development of Rugby in America, since a couple of interesting posts popped up on the web in the last few days.
Here is the thread:-
John Gates wrote:
Hi, Kurt,
I haven’t spoken to you for a while.. have updated my own blog: http://scrumtime.blogspot.com and am trying to concentrate on my theme of encouraging developing Rugby nations. I liked your latest post and wondered if you would give me permission to incorporate it in a post as follows:
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From my “reading of the tea leaves” this is a very interesting piece of intelligence that might otherwise have passed un-noticed in the world of Rugby.
This may be typical of the groundswell that is beginning in US Rugby as Nigel Melville and Kevin Roberts (and to a lesser extent, Scott Johnson, in his embarrassingly limited time as coach) exert their influence after a year or two in their jobs….
I picked this up from gainline.us, a blog that I follow from a guy called Kurt Oeler, whose bio is:
” …….. Kurt Oeler writes often about American rugby, publishing Gainline.us while contributing to Rugby News (New Zealand), the IRB Rugby Yearbook, and other periodicals. He is a member of the International Rugby Hall of Fame’s Nominating Committee, has twice been the USA national team’s press secretary, and served as recording secretary for the Pacific Rim Rugby Championship. In respect of his business career, Kurt is vice president and general manager of optionMonster, a news and information site for investors in the derivatives market, and sits on the Advisory Board of Knowledge@Wharton, the University of Pennsylvania’s business review. An avid swimmer and mountain biker, he resides with his wife in Mill Valley, California……”
“PRIZED FOOTBALL RECRUIT CHOOSES RUGBY”
An all-league football player in Northern California has declined a Division 1-AA scholarship in order to play rugby at Cal, an especially notable decision because of its financial ramifications.
Cole Huntley, a 6′, 253-pounder who is a nationally ranked prospect at fullback, has concluded that a Berkeley education combined with the varsity characteristics of its championship program outweigh the glamor of gridiron plus the full tuition, room, and board offered by in-state rival UC Davis.
What’s more, the local Contra Costa Times understood the story for what it is:
‘You don’t see a lot of high school athletes facing this kind of choice, but there may be more in the future as college rugby programs continue to grow throughout the U.S. despite not being an NCAA sport and not offering scholarships. There is a concerted effort among top rugby programs such as Cal to seek out better high school athletes.Precisely. You don’t have to be formally recognized as a varsity program, but if you evince all the key characteristics, student-athletes will come to you.
‘It’s an amazing program, a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and I’m going to take it. Plus, my number one factor was academics. Cal has a great business school, which I intend on applying to my junior year,’ Huntley told the paper.
Huntley was recently tapped in a USA Under 18 squad that will assemble at the Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista, California, from February 12-16. Players to watch include halfback / fullback Andrew Jackson of the LA Cougars and 6’7″ lock Ron Pelkey of Western Loudoun, Virginia. The camp will culminate with a match against British Columbia U18.
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I also picked up another article about a young guy who has missed the cut for senior Pro Basketball. Having played a bit of Rugby in Australia as a schoolboy, Scott Johnson found him and recommended him to Eddie Jones at Saracens… A sign of things to come?
With the sheer numbers in the US… and not everyone being able to play pro football or basketball or baseball the available talent pool has to be huge.. if they can get some of them at school or high school age, all the better..!
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So…Kurt wrote:
Hi John–
Ok to use the post, but I would caution you that is not reflective of anything which the national union (KR, NM) has done. To the contrary, coaches in the school system (high school and universities) are going their own way in mimicking the varsity programs of mainstream sports such as football, basketball, etc. Although the game of rugby itself is obviously different, the more the training setup looks like an environment they know, the more American kids are attracted to rugby.
Same scenario that attracted Cole Huntley (…see above…) goes for Hayden Smith, the lock now at Saracens. He was in Denver, Colorado, on a basketball scholarship. The best local club, the Denver Barbarians, is run by the former Eagle lock Dave Hodges, who once upon a time played in NFL Europe. Hayden slotted in nicely because the Barbos setup was familiar to him as a basketball athlete; Johnno helped him to the next level, but wouldn’t have known how to find him in the first place. (Not coincidentally, there is a group of Barbos now simultaneously rising to the national squad. Keep an eye out for the eightman Pat Quinn.)
School sports — the varsity system, to use the shorthand — is also the engine that trains virtually all American Olympians and plenty from other countries as well. The US Olympic Center is nowhere near as influential as the Australian Institute of Sport. It merely tops up the training of athletes who have already proven their bonafides in the NCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association).
This varsity system is the real gold mine in America. Unfortunately, guys like KR and NM have been a bit slow to plug into it. One who did is the former All-American coach, Dale Toohey, once of Sydney (I think) and now of Long Beach, California.
Best,
k
So I wrote….
Thanks, Kurt,Will take all of that onboard…..
Then Kurt wrote:
It’s a lot I’m afraid. Sorry if I overwrote.
so I replied:-
Not at all, Kurt, I want to get it right..it seems logical that people will go with what they know. I hope that KR and NM will not try to reinvent the wheel. If the NCAA is where it’s at, then that’s where they should be.
I am amazed and a little offended at what Scott Johnson has done to you guys. People like me would give anything to have a job like that. It is a “greenfield” opportunity, that not many people are privileged to have. He has done the easy thing and run back to his safe haven in Wales, but, from where I sit, he has shown a lack of integrity. Who knows, maybe it’s about money and every man has the right to do the best by his family, but I’m still a little bemused.
It seems to me that there are certain basic tenets that drive USA Rugby (at least as far as I see it, and I can only make comparisons with Australian Rugby).. but here they are:–…
My Country:
1. In Australia, we are fortunate that Rugby is the game of choice for many private schools; so it is fairly ingrained – while there is competition from 3 other major football codes, many young Australian boys play at least 3 of those in their junior years – we have basketball, but it is not a mainstream sport. We don’t have much baseball, American football or ice hockey, so not as many distractions, and most Aussie kids play cricket or tennis in summer, but not to the detriment of their “footy”
2. Soccer, is played by two distinct groups – the WASPS who like their little ones to play a safe sport, but are not surprised when the kids turn to Rugby, or Australian football at about age 10 or 11, and the ethnic communities who stay with it all of their lives; unfortunately Australian Football, (which we good naturedly refer to as ‘aerial ping pong’ or ‘cross country ballet’), does have a big following, and takes many of Australia’s best athletes. Rugby League is a big professional sport in a very limited area, so is no real threat to the world game and is beginning to give up many of it best players, who find it harder than they thought to make the transition. It’s mainly backs who are successful (Sonny Bill Williams, Gasnier,Tuqiri, Rogers, Cross, Tahu, Sailor).
3. When you have heroes in a sport (Gregan, Roff, Larkham, Ella, etc) the kids naturally want to emulate them.. so it’s no surprise when 7, 8 9, 10 year olds want to have a Rugby ball close by and lunch time games in the school yard revolve around touch rugby – I can’t tell you how many pairs of trousers my now 18 year old has gone through… The result is that most kids learn the fundamentals of stepping, swerving, changing pace and direction, passing, kicking and throwing “dummies” at a fairly early age, so they take that into games where most of it is second nature.
4. The Australian Rugby Union (since the mid-70′s) has put a lot of time, effort and money into coaching programs, safety, organisation, co-ordination etc, so it’s fair to say that just about every team, at no matter what level, is coached by someone who is probably Level 1, if not Level 2. That’s a big plus.
5. We have pathways now for young referees, so most private schools, at least, would be putting two or three boys through intensive Level 1 or 2 referee training, each year, from about age 16, so there is even a pathway for non-players.
6. The Schools Rugby Union is a powerful sub-element of the Australian Rugby Union with a voice. Many of Australia’s best coaches have come through the Schools’ ranks. Many of the Wallabies have come through the Schools program – while not necessary, certainly desirable.
7. The “premier” clubs in the main cities, now run Academies, and the main S14 franchises do so as well, take from them and feed into the National Talent Squads, which start watching and developing boys from age 15.
So, in summary, we get them young and that’s the best time to learn the fundamentals.
Your Country
1. Generally speaking, and I do have some contacts in the US, so it’s not total speculation, you don’t get them young. It seems to me that that should be a priority. Since I don’t understand your school system (eg private vs public etc) or the demographics, I can’t really comment.
2. You have another chance in high school, and it seems to me that the pitch should be aimed at “fun and fitness” and safety and community values, team work, safety and participation.
4. Once in College, you need to go after the athletes, but always aware that you need to teach them the fundamentals and this takes endless, boring drilling. Ten years ago, I was asked to coach a couple of womens’ teams. The talent levels were alarming from complete novices who had never played to good athletes. How you take a team like that and mould them into some sort of shape in just a few days or a week? Drills, drills, drills, and no substitute. If you explain what you are doing as you go, they develop an appreciation and begin to understand where you are coming from.
What you guys have in your country is systems and great facilities, so if I were you guys I would emulate the successful programs of Football and the other major sports, but always remembering the ethos of Rugby. I think that you guys should be concentrating on a good result at the 2015 World Cup and developing the guys now.
In the meantime keep up the great work on your Sevens development, and, like all of us, hope that it gains Olympic status. It is only now that the Australian Rugby Union is realising that that is where one of the main “nurseries” of the 15 man game exists. If 7′s goes Olympic there will be an explosion of interest around the world.
You need to be making serious attempts to integrate your schoolboys (18 y.o) and your 20 y.o teams into the highest level of competition that you can and find ways to make it attractive to keep your best players in the domestic leagues.
Apart from that, there is simply no substitute for persistence and hard yards.
Here endeth the lesson! Might sound like I’m preaching, but I want nothing more than to see, in my lifetime, some serious opposition to current “Top 8″ nations who are largely Europe, South Africa and Australasia based teams. A strong North American presence in our game is absolutely essential.
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Joe O'Sullivan said | February 7th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
all I can say gatesy is congratulations on getting such a long article published. The last time I submitted something approaching this length it was heavily edited.
Spiro said | February 7th 2009 @ 9:32am | Report comment
It’s often forgotten that rugby has a long history in the USA. Some sports tragics know, for instance, that the USA (really Standford University) won two gold medals at the Olympics for rugby, before the IOC got rid of rugby when President de Coubertin, a rugby fan, retired. The Wallabies and the All Blacks played Tests in California against All-American sides before the First World War. The Olympic and All-American sides were coached by Dan Carroll, a star of the 1906 Wallaby side that won a gold medal for rugby at the London Olympics/
The All-American- NZ Test in 1912 was the only Test the NZRU acknowledged as an official Test iagainst a country that was not South Africa, Australia, Wales, Ireland, England, Scotland or France up to the RWC of 1987.
sheek said | February 7th 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
Gatesy,
Beautiful stuff…well written & deeply informative. Of course, we want the Americans strong. Just strong enough so we can always get out of jail in the last 10-15 minutes! But not so strong that we wished we never let them play rugby!!!
USRugbyFan said | February 7th 2009 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
A couple of points,
1. If 7s is made an Olympic sport that will definitely give rugby a boost here in the States, since the USA Rugby could than receive funds for training and assemblies from the US Olympic Committee. 7s has already been added for the next Pan-American Games, but getting into the Olympics would definitely give rugby more exposure to the average American sports fan.
2. Roberts and Melville really aren’t doing that great of a job. Under their leadership we’ve gone through two head coaches (Thorburn and Johnson) while only winning something like 4 tests (against Uruguay and Barbados), we lost all four of our RWC pool matches, we got swept in a test series by Japan for the first time, and now they’ve cut funding for our 7s team, our most successful team by the way, even after promising the coach they wouldn’t. I really don’t think these guys are in tune with what the game needs done to grow successfully here.
3. Despite all of this rugby is growing, slowly but surely. Three college games will be shown on ESPN Classic this year, and more and more high schoolers are taking up the sport. The main problem, as you mentioned, is that many college players are completely new to the game, so you end with a mix of knowledge and skills that makes it hard to play rugby that would even approach what SANZAR schoolboys could do. We need more players to learn the game in high school, so that by the time they enter college they will have a solid rugby base of 4 years or so.
True Tah said | February 7th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
From what I gather, Scott Johnson wasn’t the best guy to coach the US Eagles.
Gatesy said | February 7th 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
To be fair to Scott Johnson …my US contact got back to me and said that I might have been a bit hard on him. he apparently did not get the resources and the funding that he was initially promised, but you make a commitment, you stick to it, and Rome was not built in a day.
OldManEmu said | February 7th 2009 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
If only Bob Dwyer read the Roar – he could provide an insight into an offer that was made to him in 2001 to start a SANZAR Super Rugby frnchise based in LA or SF. Point is, it went nowhere and eight yers later USA Rugby is still “the sleeping giant”.
I sympathise with what Scott Johnson probably faced. He would have been sold by some passionate people,people who had their own money, people who he would have seen and thought, “Gee if this is representative of USA Rugby, it must be on the up.” Sadly, he was probably sold on a long promise and given very short delivery.
I have been in the same sort of situation with USA Rugby.
There is no way it would have been about the money for Scott Johnson.
Rugby on the USA is a fringe sport at best it is a sideshow, a freak show even……”Oh yeah I know Rugby, you guys dont even wear helmets, Man thats fierce.” The yanks are so entrenched in their approach to sports, it wil never get off the ground there to enable the Eagles to compete at international level. This said, there is a massive Rugby culture in the USA, and those that do play Rugby love the game and play it for all the right reasons
Some of the athletes playing Rugby in the USA are incredible. It is fertile ground. Most of the Eagles players have for about 10 years now all played pro Rugby in Europe.
Will be very intersting to see how Todd Clever (a yank) goes in the Super 14 this year. If he cuts it, then there might be more interest from other Super Rugby franchises. Maybe just maybe, this could be the beginning of some momentum for USA Rugby.
Gatesy said | February 7th 2009 @ 10:56pm | Report comment
You are right, OME, it’s all too hard, let’s stop trying because it will never work!! Besides, we don’t wear helmets!!
Thurston said | February 8th 2009 @ 7:26am | Report comment
GATESY – First class reporting. I’m a big fan of US rugby, have followed Monty String’s articles on American football and rugby in this forum, and know CA pretty well having lived in Kurt Oeler’s home town of Mill Valley, and also in Walnut Creek.
There was more to the choice Cole Huntley faced than is apparent. UC Berkeley, in the East Bay, has a small, grungy downtown, but a dazzling faculty majoring in the sciences. UC Davis has some great teachers, too, but is basically an aggie school set in bucolic surrounds south of Sacramento. UC Davis plays American football in the Great West Conference which is pretty low-key stuff. They play colleges like Cal Poly and hockey schools like North Dakota. It’s a lot harder to make the NFL from schools like this than it is from the PAC-10 etc. I love the peace of UC Davis, but for top academics, I’d say Cole is making the right choice in choosing Berkeley and rugby.
Thurston said | February 8th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
OLD MAN EMU – You left us up in the air with your statement implying that you were poorly treated by USA Rugby. Let’s have some details. There are quite a few of us on this forum who love rugby and want to see its expansion, and the more we know about the pros and cons of the game in the States, and its administrators, the more we can work toward the US becoming a rugby power.