That’s a fair point, Ryan. I guess it’s more of an intuitive ‘knowing’ than a factual knowing. So much of my feeling towards Bryant is coloured by his disgraceful showing in Game 7 2006 against Phoenix where he refused to take shots in the second half as an affront to his teammates, only taking three shots to make the point that his teammates couldn’t win without his scoring. Really one of the most bizarre and indefensible things a star of Bryant’s calibre has ever done.

I agree that Kobe would take the win in the specific scenario of Game 7 of the Finals over anything else (and he was pleasantly self-deprecating after the Lakers won in spite of his 6-24 performance), but that raises other interesting questions. Would he want the win more for his team, or for his personal legacy? Given his history, I get the sense that it’s the latter. But even if it is, I can’t really blame him for it.

Renan, of course two bad games in a six game series prejudice the numbers, but so do four decent games in a six game series. That’s the entire point, we take the series in its entirety and look back at the numbers which give us a representation of everything that took place. If one bad game out of six is enough to make your overall numbers for the series look bad (as it does), then that tells you that the other five games weren’t that special. Basic math. If LeBron scores 30 in 5 games and then scores just 10 in the sixth, he still averaged 27 points for the series. That’s not nearly the case with JJ v. Orlando.

You’re saying you’re pointing games out where Johnson put the team on his back like the Boston game. Where? You’re mentioning games where he scored 23 and 25 points, congrats, Monta Ellis does that 50 times a season. Johnson was FANTASTIC in game one against Chicago 2011 and the entire 2014 playoffs, but those examples form a minority in the context of his career.

Your argument re him playing hurt is totally nonsensical. OK, he took responsibility for how bad he played, that changes nothing about the fact that HE PLAYED BAD. He actively killed the team against Chicago in 2013, the RESPONSIBLE thing would have been to sit out and give his team a better chance of winning.

It’s laughable to assert that I ‘hate’ Joe Johnson. I couldn’t care less either way about Joe Johnson, in fact, I was hoping he’d play great in the last two games against Atlanta because it would be a nice story.

Appreciate the impassioned response Renan. A little selective with the games though, it’s easy to pick out individual games to build an argument. How about Game 7 vs. Milwaukee in 2010 where he scored 8 points on 4 for 14 shooting? Or the entire 2010 Orlando series where he never cracked 20 points and never had more than 5 assists while shooting 29.8%? You can’t just write off Game 5 2011 against Orlando, that’s why we have averages, to get a broad sample size. He shot 39.6% against Orlando in that series, he wasn’t efficient. Game 1 against Chicago is probably the best I’ve ever seen Johnson play, he was masterful that night, I’ll happily concede that. Johnson was great in the 2005 playoffs too – but this article is about his play post-2008.

He was not good at all in his first year in the playoffs with the Nets, with or without the injury (if the injury forced him to play that badly then he shouldn’t have been playing). He shot 2 for 14 in Game 7 against the Bulls, settling for 9 threes and hitting only 1 of them, he was the biggest reason they lost the match and the series.

I’m not sure where this ‘always double teaming JJ’ thing came from, even expresstexas said that wasn’t the case.

I assume you mean 2011 not 2010. Joe averaged 18 points, 4 boards and 3 assists on 43.9% shooting in the 2011 playoffs against Orlando and Chicago, down on his season averages, not sure how that’s torching them?

He was excellent in 2014, no question.

Agree 100% astro. If you let JJ into the HoF then it’s a revolving door.

Thank you for the constructive feedback Kameron, I appreciate it and will take it on board accordingly.

*West Coast have the 8th youngest list in the competition Jax, middle of the pack. I agree Jax, your words and evidence have turned me, I will now back down and defer to your superior judgment and gleefully await West Coast’s impending domination of the competition.

‘jay’ please find me a single video clip of Atlanta doubling Joe Johnson in this series, he shot 36.2%, he was awful. I think you’re confusing the difference between trapping the pick and roll and double-teaming someone, totally different concepts. Woodson went to the Knicks and made them a #2 seed, higher than Atlanta ever finished, and with a weaker group of players?

I’m bringing up the 09 and 10 series because they were totally non-competitive, Johnson was apathetic to the result. It’s one thing to be outplayed, it’s another to be violently indifferent to the outcome. Johnson averaged 12 points a game on 29% shooting against Orlando in the playoffs in 2010, that’s beyond a farce. Watching those games I vividly remembering him and that entire team just quitting, they lost every game by 14 or more, it was a disgrace. Against Cleveland in 09 he averaged a meek 15 points on bad percentages, down 6.3 points from his regular season scoring. It’s not one or two series either, he’s been terrible in the playoffs in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013 and 2015. He was fantastic in 2008 and 2014, that should be the benchmark, but in the context of his career it’s an aberration.

The 7 x All-Star defence of Joe Johnson needs to stop. He’s playing in the worst conference in NBA history. His 2014 All-Star selection was, as was spoken about ad nauseam at the time, a total joke. Here are some of the guys that Johnson played in All-Star games with: Devin Harris, Jrue Holiday, David Lee, Jameer Nelson and Mo Williams. Thank you Leastern Conference.

As I said in the above comment, mediocrity is relative. Like Bill Simmons has spoken about, Chris Webber is one of the 75 greatest basketball players of all time and had a disappointing career. In a nutshell, Joe Johnson had an excellent, decorated NBA career. I don’t think he’s a Hall of Famer, nor do I think he’s ‘probable’ for the Hall of Fame (Basketball Reference has him at a 49% statistical likelihood, so borderline). But when you’re paid $123 million to the be the leader of a team, you can’t just not show up for the playoffs and wilt like Johnson did time and time again in Atlanta, especially in 2009 and 2010. Is it his fault that Atlanta stupidly gave him a max contract? No, but when you’re paid that much there are expectations and Johnson’s output in the face of them was mediocre.

And no Joe, in no universe has Johnson ‘always been double teamed’ in the playoffs. I’ve watched every playoff series he’s ever been a part of, he was briefly double teamed in the Toronto series last year because they had no sizable wing defenders, but that’s it.

Only 3 of the 20 West Coast losses to finals teams were decided by 2 goals or less. Completely different stats. And yes, history, data, and indeed common sense, do show that luck is a huge factor in close games. If Cale Hooker’s clumsy snap misses like it should 8 times out of 10 then nobody is questioning Hawthorn.

There’s nothing to suggest that West Coast is a completely different team to years past. They had no big pick-ups (if anything they got worse with the departures of Cox and Waters) and they’re hardly a young team that’s going to improve substantially with one more preseason. The Eagles had 11 different 100+ game players on the weekend, more than Hawthorn or Port Adelaide.

The arguments about West Coast and Hawthorn’s key defenders are entirely different. McKenzie, Brown and Waters are all finished for the year, and in Waters’ case, for good. The 2015 Eagles are a team that now exists independently of them. Frawley and Lake will both come back for Hawthorn after 4-6 weeks. There’s every chance the Hawks lose to North on the weekend, but they lost to them last year too and things worked out perfectly OK.

My only problem with West Coast is that they haven’t beaten a single good team since 2012 (again, 0 and 20 vs teams that made finals in 2013 and 2014). Sydney have played in two of the past three grand finals and destroyed Port Adelaide away from home this year – safe to say they’re not in the same category as the Eagles, don’t you think? Sydney got within three points of Fremantle in the final quarter, the West Coast game against Freo was never competitive. The Eagles are what they are, a mid-table team that will beat the bad teams and get thumped by the good ones. The problem is that they’ve been that for three years in a row now.

As far as the Hawks go, they lead the league in inside 50s, are 3rd in effective disposal percentage, 2nd in contested possession differential and 4th in uncontested possession differential. Statistically they dominated Port Adelaide and the Essendon game was a toss-up, history and data shows that games decided by two goals or less are basically down to chance. They were ‘slowing, aging and injured’ last year and won the Grand Final by 63 points. The Hawks will be fine.

Mediocrity is relative. Kevin Love was one of the 35 best basketball players on earth this season. He was one of the 10 best basketball players on earth last season though, so his 2014-15 season has to be considered mediocre at best. Nobody is saying that Joe Johnson is a bad basketball player. He was a top 25 guy in the league for the better part of half a decade. That’s impressive. But in the context of his talent and his expectations, he has had a mediocre career. Mediocre means ‘of only average quality’, and for his gifts Johnson’s output has been decidedly average.

I dispute the notion that Johnson plays his heart out. His playoff performances, last year and the Boston series withstanding, have been an abomination. The Orlando series in 2010 was one of the great playoff debacles, and his performances in game sevens against Milwaukee and Chicago were even worse.

And no, Joe Johnson is not ‘always double teamed’.

Cheers Ryan, appreciate the plug. Loved your statistical breakdown of Essendon yesterday, great stuff. Good to see analytics finding its way into AFL journalism.

Figured Brisbane fans needed it, Chris.

‘A History of Violence’ is a 2005 Oscar nominated film directed by David Cronenberg, starring Viggo Mortensen, Ed Harris and William Hurt. The film depicts violence as an art-form and in the article I suggest that Jonathan Brown similarly made violence an art-form with his brutal, beautiful playing style. There is nothing malicious. Apologies if the reference was lost on anyone.

Thanks for the comment Jason. An oversight on my part about the Blues winning those two finals, I should have clarified by saying they’ve won just one final since 2001 in seasons that they actually finished in the top eight, with a clear asterisk next to that Richmond win. As far as Goddard and Wells goes, there’s obviously no guarantee that they would have picked both even if they had the top two picks. In regards to Jacobs, judging from the reports at the time his bigger concern was playing time given that Kreuzer, Hampson and Warnock were above him in the pecking order.

I think it’s fair to label the Thomas contract a disaster. They’re paying 700K for a player who hasn’t been elite since 2011, and they’re paying that money to him when they’re in a rebuilding process. It was a misevaluation of the state of their list. Dale Thomas will not be a part of the next Carlton contender.

I can half see the Kawhi argument because of his defence, but LeBron did put up a 28-8-4 on 57% shooting in the Finals last year while Kawhi scored in single digits in two of the five games. The Terry case is stronger, it’s hard to forget exactly how bad LeBron was in the 2011 Finals, although on defence and statistically on offence he was a lot better than Jet. Totally disagree with Howard in 09 though, as Bill Simmons has written that’s the best individual series LeBron has ever played – he put up a freaking 39-8-8 for six games on near 50% shooting. I wouldn’t call Kawhi or Jet role players either, they were the 2nd and 3rd best players on their teams.

Cheers Ryan, appreciate it. Houston getting the #2 seed today is really interesting for Harden’s MVP case. Totally irrational (given that they got there because San Antonio lost, plus some wonky tiebreaker) but Harden leading his team to #2 in the brutal West has to play on the minds of voters.

Kyrie’s game is definitely ‘cool’ with his smooth stroke and sick handle but there’s too much negativity swirling around him – petulance and locker room innuendo. Dame’s still the one for me, and hopefully he’s in Rip City for years to come.

The difference between Love and Bosh, and why I think Bosh might actually be a better player, is that even if Bosh isn’t being fed on offence he’s still an elite defensive player who can affect the game that way. Love cannot.

Kyrie is an interesting one. This guy is one of the 5 or 6 best scorers in the NBA. Ultimately, on this team I think his role should be to lead the bench unit and then play off ball as a spot-up shooter and driver when he’s playing alongside LeBron. He shouldn’t be dribbling the way he is now and taking mid-range stepbacks with LeBron and Love on the court at the same time.

Thanks for the feedback guys. Llewellyn, you are not alone in your Blake hate, he seems to be the most despised player in the league by other players. He is a truly elite basketball player though, obviously a phenomenal athlete but incredibly smart too. He has an amazing post-up game, is one of the best big man passers in the league and might be the best ball-handling big in the NBA. I’m not sure how his stats have ‘gotten worse each year’ either. In 2012-13 he averaged 18.0-8.3 shooting 66% from the line while last season he put up a 24.1-9.5 while shooting 72% from the line. Fairly big improvement. He’s taking too many jumpers this year but it’s a small sample size, too quick to judge it as a ‘bad evolution of Griffin as an NBA player’. I’m not saying he’s definitely the third best player in the league (Curry and Davis have a strong argument for that spot too), but he did finish 3rd in the MVP last year and he’s definitely in that discussion, no matter how bad his commercials are.

OJP, I don’t think Paul’s reputation as a dirty player has hurt him. Like Isaiah Thomas before him I think we tend to glorify these ‘dirty’ players by conflating dirtiness with a ‘do whatever it takes to win’ winning mentality.

Mushi, I agree 100% with your take on Paul and his style. He’s a blue-collar, half-court player who grinds out points. ‘Lob city’ is largely antithetical to Paul’s NBA sensibilities. Just because he’s good at throwing lob passes doesn’t make him a ‘flashy’ player. In fact, I think there’s an argument to be made that the Clippers would be better served if Paul was flashier. This year they’re playing at the 18th quickest pace in the league, a number that feels like it should be higher given the athletic talent on the Clippers.

Thanks for reading astro. D’Antoni definitely deserves some credit but I think that the fact that he never succeeded without Nash, whereas Nash succeeded under Alvin Gentry too, does say a bit. As far as Colangelo goes, I think Nash succeeded in spite of him. If Colangelo hadn’t been so cheap Nash could have had Rondo as his back-up and Andre Igoudala as his wing. The fact that Colangelo never found a solid rim protector also undermined the team.

I think that Pop’s 1999-2007 Spurs were more of an old-school team, built around defence and Duncan in the post. Pop has said that after the Suns swept the Spurs in the 2010 playoffs, the team made a conscious effort to become more offensively oriented and incorporate D’Antoni’s spread pick and roll. Nash inevitably played a role in the success of that system and what made it so appealing to San Antonio.

Nash was never a good defender, no question. I wonder though, in this era with the current rules, how important point guard defence is. Mike Conley is supposedly an elite defensive point guard but he was abused in the playoffs by Russell Westbrook, and I’m not sure there’s anything he could have done about it. Defensive structures, your philosophy of attacking the pick and roll and having a rim protector are more important I think.

As far as Nash’s lack of team success, I’m not sure there’s been a more unlucky team than the 21st century Phoenix Suns. Joe Johnson broke his face one year, Amar’e did his knee the next, there were the bench suspensions and Artest’s ridiculous putback. I think 07 was the year for Phoenix, if Amar’e doesn’t stupidly get suspended by the league that year I think they beat San Antonio and win the title. We’ll never know though.

Thanks Jayme. I agree that the ankle issues have definitely hurt him but I think there are some deeper issues. There’s just a lot of bad stuff swirling around Deron. The way he’s disappeared in the playoffs, the fact that he’s run multiple coaches out of town, doesn’t seem to be a leader of any sorts, and also has looked overweight recently. Chris Paul never loses that game 7 at home to the Deng-less, Rose-less Bulls, it just doesn’t happen.

I hope Deron pieces it together. The league’s more exciting when a) he’s a star and b) when Brooklyn is interesting, which they won’t be unless he gets back to form. Like you said, he does show flashes, especially the 2012-13 tear I alluded to in the article, but they are becoming less and less frequent.

I think Deron had more trade value in 2008 than Kobe, absolutely. Not that he’s the overwhelming authority on basketball (although sometimes it feels like he is) but in the 2007/08 season Bill Simmons ranked Deron five spots ahead of Kobe in his trade value column. I don’t think anyone would have thought Deron was a better player at the time, but I think a lot of people would have taken Deron envisioning he’d have 10 years of his prime left as opposed to Kobe’s 4 or 5.

I’m with you Ryan, I would have taken Deron over Paul as recently as 2010. Ironically, my reasoning would have been that D-Will had a better chance of staying healthy.