My memory of the Wallabies is growing up in the golden era of the 90’s and early 00’s where we regularly held the Bledisloe and no.1 billing. Surely that is the goal of the WB’s to be no.1 not no.3? With that in mind and how easily the AB’s have flogged us for the past 10 years I would definitely call that a sad decline. Or do we need to wait another 10 years before it qualifies as such?

No one is doubting the greatness of the AB’s or the popularity of Union in NZ. But you cannot deny the decline of Union popularity and success in the largest nation involved in the SANZAR agreement spells trouble for the region on a number of fronts. Internationally Rugby is strong, especially with 7’s at the Olympics, which will be fantastic to see top end League talent decide to go and chase a Gold medal.

The future for international league has not looked pretty for 50 odd years, domestically it’s another story. The popularity of League in Australia will always be a thorn in the WB’s and AB’s side. League will never die domestically in Australia, it is only getting stronger so the player drain for both Union and League will continue.

League backs know that they can make it Union with only a small transition, for Union backs to transition to League it requires a lift in workload and physicality, little wonder Union backs stick in their comfort zone. The forwards game in League and Union is probably to big a gulf for any real cross overs anyway.

Agree and disagree. Subtlety is a good point there, the Steeden is much better for a short passing game due to it’s shape and handling. My point was the Gilbert is like a laser with a long spiral pass so it no surprise that big men can show top end skills like 30m cut out passes, which are on the flip side are harder with the Steeden. It’s irrelevant either way League forwards don’t pass throw cut out passes because of the structure in League it very rarely cares for it, not because they can’t. Although as a point of difference many NRL teams now have front rowers hitting a half on a second man play to create a point of difference in attack. There is no real difference between the skill sets of the international players, top end talent is top end talent. The games just call and allow for different skills at different times

1 Ben Smith/ Damian McKenzie/Roger Tuivasa Sheck? The AB’s want RTS bad
2 Waisake Naholo/Jordan Rapana?
3 Malakai Fekitoa/Solomoe Kata?
4 George Moala/Dean Whare?
5 Julian Savea
6 Beauden Barrett
7 Aaron Cruden/Shaun Johnson
8 Jessie Bromwich
9 Aaron Smith
10 Ben Matulino/ Luke Romano
11 Jason Taumalolo
12 Jerome Kaino
13 Dane Coles/Simon Mannering

80% Kiwi? Your math is so far off it is not even worth making a list. Run your eye down the NRL starting team lists and check out the debutantes lists, maybe 20% at a stretch

It think guys like you don’t understand that the Steeden and Gilbert are very different balls. The Gilbert is more rounded with a massive sweet spot, mush easier to pass and kick, even clumsy forwards can throw cut our passes and punt 50m+. Why do you think you never see an “end over end” pass in Union? Everyone can throw expert like spiral passes with a Gilbert.

The Steeden is a very different prospect and more unforgiving. It is skinnier and more unpredictable in the hands, in the air, and on the bounce.

With the saturation of Rugby in NZ if they had 24 million population the AB’s would be on another level again. Scary thought

The NRL is well balanced with Kiwi players, I for one would not mind seeing more NZ talent top line talent flow from the AB;s into the NRL. I think it would illuminate my point about the difference in athleticism and desire.

Pointless article? Probably.

What about how pointless it is posting about how pointless an article is on the so called pointless article?

Some very passionate viewpoints, thank you all for the read and the interest.

For the All Blacks tragic’s who can’t quite get your head around the sporting landscape over here, then for a moment think of Rugby Union as Ice Hockey, Australia is the US, and New Zealand is Canada.

In Canada the whole nation reverberates around Ice Hockey and their domination of everyone but mainly their big brother the US. In the US Ice Hockey is a popular sport but falls well behind the NFL, NBA, and MLB.

The Union participation numbers in Aus, GB, and the US are irrelevant to a certain extent. We are talking about a professional sporting contest and the desire to represent and succeed. That comes from the zeitgeist of that nation, what it means to be a Australian or New Zealand national hero. In New Zealand it is simple, to be an All Black, in Australia it is much more convoluted and segmented so their is a dilution.

The NRL being chock full of NZ players is awesome, I applaud the rise and rise of the Kiwis and can’t wait until they have as much depth as the Kangaroos. The next 10 years of Kiwis v Kangaroos is going to exhilarating. I would even say that the amount of NZ and PI players in the NRL should be pointing to League being ready for an expansion. Throw Perth, Wellington, West Brisbane, and Darwin into the mix. Check out how many great players are coming out of Q and NSW Cup. On the flip side Super Rugby is dropping teams.

The key is the player depth and desire is there for League in Australia. There are two League teams per age group for each club where I am from in Far North Queensland. Junior Rugby is run in the summer after the League season to mop up what little interest there is left. Union age groups are bundled together and even then sides are barely fielded, from three times less teams.

Whether AB fans like it or not Australia is intrinsically linked with the success of Rugby in the southern hemisphere, and right now the future is not pretty.

Linnet has his downfalls but his hard yards out of the backfield are just what the doctor ordered for a Prelim final. Ponga is way too slight defensively and inexperienced yet to be playing centre in a Prelim final, despite his talent. Better to bring him along on the wing if Winterstein is not fit, otherwise if Winterstein is fit he must start. Cowboys cannot risk playing boys instead of men with a premiership on the line

Hmm forgetting a few factors there, 7 tackle sets etc. The conspiracy theories did have it’s genesis from some truly shocking and robbing calls. The coach and captain spoke out against those horrid calls, just as any of their Sydney team counterparts would have had it happened to them, to say they were ungracious in those circumstances is speed reading

I wondered why I hadn’t copped more for flak that comment from AB tragic’s, better late than never hey Johnno. That 95% figure you are throwing around is a ridiculous number, I played both sports growing up and I chose to play Rugby League just like alot of your so called 95%. That whole narrative is bullshit, there is just more opportunity in Australia for top line talent due to the NRL being a larger competition with more spots up for grabs. Talent scouts may use that to entice young NZ talent over here but that is what talent scouts do in every professional sport across the globe. Go and talk to some Brazil soccer tragic about how the IPL, La Liga, Serie A, and Bundeslinga flog all their talent with so called fake promises. Being in NZ it must be hard for you to place League second but you have to remember it is the opposite in Oz. League produces better athletes in the backs because they get so much more opportunity to play. Two less players on the field, defensive line ten meters back, and a much clearer ruck. I’m not arguing about which is the better sport, to each his own, but there is a reason why the NRL is the perfect breeding ground for top line talent

Wallabies have been on the decline for a while, England are getting closer standard wise because Eddie Jones is developing more players with league backgrounds. NZ and Aus have always had the benefit of their player base growing up playing both sports and gaining better skills because of it, England have realised that in the backs especially league instincts are a massive plus

Very ironic isn’t it. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out, maybe it was all a storm in a teacup, my article included

Your right about the forward Richards, they give you the right to play football. Inside and outside backs can’t do much at all until they have layed the platform. Semi though is one of those rare exceptions to that rule, I have seen him turn and win Parra games over the last two years with a line break, big run, or offload

Thanks Steve. Your dead right about the wingers this year, why isn’t there more noise about Jordan Rapana? Nathan Ross? So many good stories but all we want to do is focus on one clubs misery

Every story is about Semi’s situation at the moment. Players, coaches, and ex-players are all being interviewed on whether or not he will come back. My point is who cares? If he wants to run off on his mates, and his club then just let him go and move on. There are players who are just as good out there who actually deserve the attention and development

The arrogance call is pretty close to the mark, I would just say that the NSW teams of the last decade have been low on intangibles, and that would be more the selection table issue. Which is what Gus was touching on too I guess. Those intangibles like competitiveness can be hard to identify in players but I would say Peats is your best hope. He is a fighter and will never relent or lose faith no matter what the score board says

Or when you feel like you are playing a superior team you perceive that things are not going your way. I personally feel like QLD do not have the better players, at least physically anyway.

The perfect example of this is Darren Lockyer, not the fastest, not the strongest, not the most skillfull, definitely not the Origin athletic build NSW favour, just a pure competitor. Andrew Johns is actually Darren Lockyer era, was always considered to be leaps and bounds ahead of Lockyer. Check out Lockyer’s early origin record;

Lost the series with QLD in Super League in 97
Lost in 98
Overlooked in 99
Blues Whitewash in 2000
Won in 2001 (Yay!)
Lost in 2003
Lost in 2004
Lost in 2005

Up until that point Darren Lockyer was one of the best players in the QLD side and you could say was a QLD representative failure. Yet through dogged persistence he broke through and taught QLD how to win. It is my firm belief that his intangibles and many others of his era wore off on Thurston, Cronk, and co. to make them better players for club, state, and country.

Compare Thurston and Pearce for example. Pearce is bigger, faster, stronger, and a better defender. His running game is better, his passing game is better, and his kicking game is better. Thurston embarrasses Pearce almost every time they play against each other though, why? Sheer competitiveness.

This competitiveness drives Locker/Thurston/Cronk to ignore the score board, ignore the clock, ignore bad ref calls, ignore teammates mistakes, just give more than you belive you actually have to win the game.

They are not “better players” they just refuse to rest on luck.

Cronk being out used to be a scary thought for QLD. For the next year and a bit we can rest easy because Thurston-Morgan at origin level would probably be unstoppable. After JT and Cronk are gone in 2018 the QLD halves spot will be an open market and you could probably say because of that the entire series will be as well

That would be a scary team for QLD to face I would make only a couple of changes, Moylan to me a bad call all along, from this Queenslanders perspective it should always have been between Tedesco and Coote.;

1. Tedesco
2. Mansour
3. Leilua
4. Roberts
5. Trbojevic
6. Blake Austin
7. (Let Andrew Johns choose)
8. Woods
9. Peats
10. James
11. Frizell
12. Cordner
13. Merrin

14. Fafita
15. Cartwright
16. Klemmer
17. J Bird

Coach: Danny Buderus
Selectors: Phil Gould and Andrew Johns

North of the border NSW selection conundrums are a bloody laughing stock. The failure again and again to pick dangerous players for a perceived increased risk of failure is a joke. Think James Roberts this year, slightly out of form but always a scary sight to stand in front of. Raiders BJ Leilua is unstoppable right now, and his team mate Blake Austin is surely the most dangerous running half in the game (side not why are NZ not looking at Jordan Rapana either? Is the Raiders jumper poisenous?). Nathan Merritt in his prime was the try poacher incarnate, picked way too late in his career to have an impact. Amos Roberts was topping the NRL try list and barely got a mention. If any one of these guys were QLDers they would have had long careers in a maroon jumper. Stuff the big body bull line and stop treating origin differently, just pick and stick with your best team and let them get better enough to win